DPF - how bad does it get

[vvgonelli]

Peter, Jon & other members posting about xf dpf difficulties,

Thanks for the welcome, the advice & encouragement.

I will get the named additives the forum suggests may help & try to move to the best fuel & follow the journey instruction but this time on a proper motorway without regular traffic lights.

Hopefully, in due course,  I can confirm positively that all is well.

The XF is not part of the inner family yet.

It may well be a much better car than the jags we had which are, fondly recalled, rightly or wrongly?

Not a stranger to jags. From 1957, I have driven but not owned an xk120, mk 5,6 & 9.

Then 1960 to 1970 we owned 2.4, 3.4, Original S type, mk10, then an e type.

No jags then for years till mid 90's when we started with jags again getting 2 xj 6, then 3 xj8 Lwb, one after the other every few years, all mistral blue and, no one seemed to realise the reg no kept changing.

Had an x type at the same tume as the last 2 xj8's which I liked a lot but, my wife would not sit in at any time. That left the family in 2018.

I thought Jag did a great job of squeezing a big car shape into a
 Small car and still keep some lines.

Favourites, the Mk9 & the most recent XJ8 which had a gas conversion. 

So exciting visiting a fuel stop, it was like getting something free from the government.

I liked what I had so much that I used to look at all big jags after 93 and say, never!

The Mk 9's & the XJ8's both had a line.

The XJ8 is sadly missed by us both.
The degree of comfort is not in an Xf

I only had the Xf since 10/19, not been on a motorway & only filled the tank 3 times. Only doing 2 town miles per day & 12 each Sat & Sun.

Not surprising I have problems,  I can hear everyone's thoughts.

Would I like to go back to any old favourite? Probably I would miss the gadgets so, No.

But I would still like to keep saying the previous cars were better!

Finally, I would like to make mention that I have a couple of ELN 327, a cable one and a cordless one, wifi I think.

I have several freebie software apps & one full version which I used to subscribe to but let it lapse as I had no time to play.

I could go for a new app suitable to manage an xf if anyone has already suggested one on the forum.

Hoping to be a regular reader.

Thanks again,
Vincent

[Gareth2665]

If you are having a problem with the DPF RED warning triangle stating the DPF is full DO NOT listen to Jaguar. Please see the 3 other threads for DPF's i have added to. In a nutshell either JLR diagnostic equipment is not fit for purpose or the technicians are not experienced enough to fully understand DPF's and correctly test them. I was quoted £3993.00 to replace mine on a 10K milage car. I had it done for £90.00!!

Your ECU guesses the Soot counter and Ash values in the DPF based on driving habits etc.If it gets to a certain level it will perform a passive regeneration whilst you are driving. If the journey you are doing is not long enough to get everything up to temperature to burn off the soot it will not regenerate. If this driving style continues and it does not get to do a regen it then thinks it is full and subsequently gived the dreaded FULL red warning.

I took Mine to Fitch Autos who were brilliant. They did all the tests to confirm it was not full and then did a manual check with a Manometer to confirm there was actually very little soot in there. The soot counters were reset then when it was driven it performed its own regeneratin and works perfectly now.

 

HOWEVER...it has to be checked properly. You cannot just reset the counters as this can cause a fire and serious damage. The values have to be calculated and ckecked by professionals mate.

[jag333]

Just had amber dpf light on, took car for a run down motorway at 100mph now she,s all good hopefully will stay like that they dont like short trips they need a good run!

[Old Peter]

I have had my S type 2.7D[07 plate] for 8 years and I have never had the DPF amber light come on.  I do a lot of short runs, particularly when the Covid virus lockdowns are in force.

I use premium fuel and an additive which keeps the fuel system clean.  I also try to have a run at over 45 mph for about 30 minutes once a week. 100mph is not necessary, especially in an area that has motorways are often have  limited  speeds due to the amount of traffic at most times.

 

[Coolcity]

"There is an option in the JLR software to tell the car that it has a new DPF but this can be dangerous if mis-used and will only happen if the DPF is essentially very very clean after the return from the specialist DPF cleaning bods...."

 

That's interesting. I wonder if the warning system is based on averages, in the same way that an inkjet printer will tell you that your ink cartridge is running low when in fact there's probably around 50% left in it, because they use page counts x average ink used per page, rather than measure the actual  amount of ink used. 

In other words you could get a warning when there's really nothing wrong at all. I'll be looking at the one I've just bought when I pick it up in a few days' time, as it's an 09 model but has only done just over 50,000 miles - well below average mileage - so has probably done a lot of short journeys. 

[Coolcity]

On 1/8/2019 at 7:44 PM, TJM said:

So after many hours online last night and this morning I decided that as I have some time left on MOT I would pick the car up today from the Jaguar Specialist I am using in Leatherhead, Surrey with a plan to get the DPF cleaned by a specialist the figures seemed to be circa £500

A lengthy conversation was had on collection about DPF's generally as I was clearly not happy that the only option offered to me was replacement at £1800 and several things emerged.

1, Jaguar will apparently be offering re-conditioned DPF's as an option to brand new later this year. (Christmas time 2019 was the given time frame)

2. DPF Cleaning may actually be a worthwhile option.

3. I found 'used' Jag XF DPF's on ebay around £250 but they are obviously an unknown - specialist warned against it as he would but in the future this may be your only option - this could be an option for you to get car through an MOT perhaps.

The specialist I am using had done some homework on the subject over the past 24h and had identified a DPF cleaning company - he had also telephoned some of their clients VAG and BMW and had got positive reports on the process, he will essentially be removing the dpf from the car, the company will collect and clean it using an industrial machine and then return it the next day to be refitted.

The specialist also said that he will then update the engine management software as there is an update available for my 2014 XF and he 'expects' that this will provide some improved handling for DPF cleaning but he will only install this update after the work is complete.

This will cost me £600 inc vat which also includes the re-test and the £65 software update.

There is an option in the JLR software to tell the car that it has a new DPF but this can be dangerous if mis-used and will only happen if the DPF is essentially very very clean after the return from the specialist DPF cleaning bods.

The specialist cleaning co. will provide before and after readings on the DPF I think this is pressure readings from the fore and aft sensors so it should clear what benefit the clean has provided.

my DPF is apparently currently above 60% full but the exact figure is not known as the JLR software only shows the true figure during a regen

As I have mentioned there was NO PRIOR WARNING before this Red error - I was told this sometimes happens so JLR inbuilt XF monitoring software is clearly flawed as it really should show the an amber warning first.

The soot level 1 year ago was 0.3g but when I checked despite some long journeys the latter half of 2018 actually saw only short journeys mainly within m25/London and on A roads in sussex so my driving habits have to change.

*** For info ***
Halfords now offer a DPF cleaning service for £85 or £120 advanced - this involves removing a sensor in the front of the DPF unit and directly injecting a chemical cocktail into a dpf using a lance this will apparently breakdown the buildup and allow it to burn off - they do this several times - I wont be doing this at halfords  but mention it as its the cheapest service I found and shows just what a problem clogged DPF's have become to the UK populous.

 

I really truly believe that all JLR diesel vehicles (and indeed all other diesel vehicle manufacturers) should have their infotainment systems updated to show DPF level - this option could be hidden in the menu system so that only those owners who want it would turn it on but this really is a must - I'd want to see a % figure or at least some kind of progress bar and an indication when a DPF clean is in progress even if just a colour change on the % figure - an option to initiate a clean would just be the holy grail!

Sadly though JLR have a vested interest in keeping the software in its current infant state so they can just keep charging customers for new DPF's - the availability later this year (2019) of recon DPF's is somewhat telling but I wouldn't hold your breath for a fix for this.

Will update next week after the works are complete.

I know this thread is a couple of years old, but I would be surprised if the service offered by Halfords is much different from the one the specialist is using. 

While I admit I'm no expert, at the end of the day it's only a matter of cleaning the accumulated soot out of the DPF.

[Coolcity]

On 4/26/2021 at 10:55 AM, Old Peter said:

I have had my S type 2.7D[07 plate] for 8 years and I have never had the DPF amber light come on.  I do a lot of short runs, particularly when the Covid virus lockdowns are in force.

I use premium fuel and an additive which keeps the fuel system clean.  I also try to have a run at over 45 mph for about 30 minutes once a week. 100mph is not necessary, especially in an area that has motorways are often have  limited  speeds due to the amount of traffic at most times.

 

Which additive do you recommend Peter? I know some people are against them, but they've been around for a long time now and I think there would have been repercussions if they had any adverse effect. 

For the record, picked the car up yesterday with the orange DPF light on. I know it's been sat at the dealers for around 3 months and if it's been out at all it would have only been on short test runs.  It also has only 52k miles on the clock so on an 09 plate that suggests it's probably been used for short journeys more often than long ones (although there were a few addresses stored in the sat nav that were quite some distance apart - Birmingham, Glasgow and Newcastle upon Tyne, and the last owner was based in W. Sussex. 

Anyway, I extended the motorway run home to around 50m but it didn't clear. This morning I put some Wynns DPF Cleaner in the tank and filled it up with Shell V-Plus or whatever it's called. Went on a longer run, varying the speeds from around 50 to 80 as somebody suggested earlier, pulled into the services at around 50 miles to go to the loo and when I came back and restarted it the light was off. I've done around 80 miles since, 30 of that in town, and it's OK so far. 

[Old Peter]

Hi Gary,

I have used a Wynns EGR ceaner  with some success but for the last five yearsI have used Millers  ECO Max Diesel Power which  has also proved successful.  I also use Shell V Plus.

Regars,

Peter.

[Coolcity]

Thanks, I'll look out for that. I've also found a garage in Blackpool that does off-vehicle DPF revamps too, and quotes around £300. They stated that it tends to happen mostly on the 3.0d engine at around 75-80k. Other people seem to have paid up to £600 so it sounds quite reasonable, should it ever be required. 

[Boverus]

On 6/13/2017 at 1:43 PM, Old Peter said:

I had known about this issue with diesels for some time and indeed, had heard that many thad thought it was scaremongering.  It is not the quality of the oil that is in your car [although I use the oil recommended by Jaguar] but the quantity that is in your sump.

Preventative measures, and using good fuel are important, and those that do this will be rarely, if ever.troubled by the DPF full message .

It is important that you check the oil yourself -- not an exacting task -- rather than depend on what a mechanic tells you, unless you know and trust the mechanic.

I was told when an exhaust was bing fitted that my brake discs needed changing, and that car passed 3 MOTs after that without any change in discs.

Peter

The service criteria and the MOT fail criteria are miles apart 

 

[Coolcity]

Interesting reading through this again, especially the prices being quoted. I did finish up with a "Restricted Performance" issue last October, which was deemed to be a blocked DPF, and got it removed and cleaned with a 12 month warranty for under £200 if I remember the price correctly. 

I've also few found out that you can buy a fault code reader for around £50, which will tell you, to a point, what problems you're having. The one I got, the Icarsoft v2, also allows you to manually regenerate the DPF. It cost me around £100. However, I'm really interested in one of the bluetooth modules that were mentioned earlier, if they can be programed to show the soot levels. These ELN327 gadgets can be purchased for under a fiver on eBay, even the wireless bluetooth ones, just plug in and connect to your mobile phone. Sounds like a "must have" to me, especially if you're experiencing DPF problems as I am. I'm not sure if they show the soot levels or if that has to be programed into them separately but I'm going to take a closer look at the various listings on eBay. 

[Coolcity]

I found something VERY interesting tonight. In the Workshop manual - the one the dealers use, not the Owner's Guide (OG) - the instructions for doing the DPF regeneration after the amber warning are pretty much the same, word for word in fact, as they are in the OG.

But there's also an extra instruction. The manual advised that you drive for a further 10 minutes to ensure the DPF is properly cleaned. 

That definitely does NOT appear in the OG. 

Note this was for the 3.0d, MY2010-2013 XF.

There's also a section that tells you that "active regen occurs automatically every 450 miles (adjusted according to driving style)", but a few pages and a couple of years later that was rewritten to read "every 250 miles" . 

[BattyB]

  

On 3/14/2017 at 6:41 PM, TJM said:

Hi all,

So, having just lavished £1500 on a service on my (new to me) 2014 XF I then got the dreaded amber DPF (Diesel Particulate filter) warning less than a week later.

In my case it was  Amber warning saying 'DPF Full' but not the Red warning which is apparently worse.

This car is new to me and despite having a 2008 diesel engined BMW I was blissfully unaware of the DPF debacle until this happened as my 2008 car hasn't been castrated with a DPF.

I should be clear here that this is an industry problem affecting most 2009 diesel cars and is not confined to Jaguar

So having then read an awful lot online about this it seems in summary that the DPF is a device imposed upon all diesel engined cars from 2009 by a witless government in a knee jerk reaction to climate change in response to European Legislation (and subsequently implemented in a similar half arsed fashion by most car makers).

So, In my case I made a point of not using the car until last weekend (i used the dirtier BMW instead). I had a good run lined up (50 miles each way) and my warning cleared about 45mins into the journey and hasnt come back on since however I have absolutely no idea of the state that my DPF is in which seems like something I really should be able to view on the console screen as it's clearly quite a relevant item.

Because I have no idea of DPF state I have booked car in to my local Jag specialist who tells me that he can see the current DPF level and can also initiate a clean (which seems to involve him driving it round the M25 in the early hours while his laptop is connected to the ECU in my car telling him what speed to drive at) as he runs through a 'forced clean' process.

I would just like to get a feel for what you other XF owners have experienced

If you have a solution please share it!

If you are also new to the DPF problem then I hope this topic will grow to help us all out!

I have a 3 litre XF. I initially experienced the yellow warning light after I had owned the (second hand) vehicle for abut 4 month and it advised me to take the vehicle for a drive at at least 50mph for (i think) 20 minutes. This seemed to work. Then about 2 months ago (after another 8 months) i had just driven 160 miles on the motorway at performance Jag speeds and had pulled onto an A road when I got the red triangle of death. I pulled into a local cafe for a drink and t put some ad blue in (which I thought was the problem) and everything seemed to be cleared. The a couple of weeks later I got a yellow engine light. having taken the car into my local Jag specialist, it transpired that engine omissions had backed up and blown the (I think he said) manifold. This would cost over £1K to repair. The guy said that this was a common problem particularly where the car is used for short distances and stop start  style of driving. He also advised that after he had fixed the problem, I would need to go to a specialist for them to try and clear the DPF. What a total pain in the rear. he also advised that the car would be O.K to use short term until the repair was carried out but I would get the red triangle of death (restricted performance) at regular intervals. This has proved to be the case.

As an interim measure I have started to use DPF fuel additive which (early doors) seems to be working a treat as performance has picked up, the car seems to using less fuel (it was a very thirsty beast, now not so much) and performance has picked up so well worth the £7 per bottle.

MOT is due in about 6 weeks so I plan to have that and the repair done at the same time. Instructions on the bottle advise that I need to use on bottle of additive in a full tank about every 3K miles. If this stops the problem from re-occurring then that seems like a good buy for me.

[BattyB]

On 6/18/2021 at 1:19 PM, Coolcity said:

Thanks, I'll look out for that. I've also found a garage in Blackpool that does off-vehicle DPF revamps too, and quotes around £300. They stated that it tends to happen mostly on the 3.0d engine at around 75-80k. Other people seem to have paid up to £600 so it sounds quite reasonable, should it ever be required. 

Yes that seems about right. Mine is a 3 liter and around that mileage. Wish I had known this when I bought it, I could have been using additive which might have avoided a fairly expensive repair.

[Coolcity]

5 hours ago, BattyB said:

Yes that seems about right. Mine is a 3 liter and around that mileage. Wish I had known this when I bought it, I could have been using additive which might have avoided a fairly expensive repair.

I've actually learned a lot since I posted that previous post. I've had a Restricted Performance (RP) problem for the past couple of years when accelerating over 3000 rpm or so, and various garages (including the DPF guy who unfortunately caused more issues than he solved), have been unable to resolve it. 

The first thing to understand, though it took me a while to find this out, is that the car auto-regenerates the DPF every so often BUT IF YOU HAVE A FAULT OF SOME KIND IT WON'T REGENERATE. So if you're getting the DPF Full amber warning regularly it probably means you have a problem somewhere and it is NOT the DPF that's actually the fault, it's just not regenerating because of the fault. It is very important to understand this because if you don't find the fault you will keep getting the DPF Full warning because it's filling op over time and not regenerating. 

 

Very long story but in short I've done/found various things which have made some difference. Here are the main ones: 

1. I cleaned the MAP sensor, very easy job, it sits on top of the throttle body which sits on top of the engine. That was gunged up and made a huge difference in performance and stopped the amber DPF light coming on so often. 

2. One garage found that the two MAF sensors had been fitted the wrong way around, i.e, sensor A into socket B and vice versa. Correcting that also made a difference and stopped the RP problem to a point, except that it now kicks in at lower revs and often on decelerating; before it was only when accelerating. 

3. I changed the actuator on the second turbo, I'm told it's a common fault that this sticks and causes the RP issue, but it made no difference on mine and the original one seemed OK when removed. 

4. I recently removed and cleaned the throttle body and found the flap inside it was sticking. I cleaned and sanded it down a little, now it seems fine.  However I've recently seen a Jag specialist over the RP issue and they say there's a boost leak on the throttle body so maybe I haven't fitted it back correctly. 

5. I noticed the actuator arm on the FIRST turbo was shaking/vibrating, as if loose, when the engine was idling (see attached video).

If you have the 3.0d engine you can just see this down the left side of the engine (the right side if you're looking under the bonnet from the front of the car; i.e. the nearside). It isn't actually loose, so there is obviously some issue there and I believe this may well be the cause of the RP problem (that and the boost leak on the throttle body), and I think if I get those fixed it might finally cure the problem.

[jothinasjag]

had this problem with a transit van. best option is get the dpf internals removed and map out the software. van is now doing 5mpg more and pulling so much better. cost about £450.00 and looks stock so passes mot