New S Type Owner

Jim Elston · July 4, 2017

Well, I did it. I have bought the S type I was interested in. It is a 2001 3.0 in Aspen Green with biscuit Leather interior. Dealer is getting thew MOT and service done and then I can collect it. It drives beautifully (How good must the facelift ones be?) MOT history is very good, it has done 97,000 miles and is in very good condition. It all works as well, windows, air con, seats..... After all these years, finally I own a Jaguar. I have nearly taken the plunge before, many years ago I nearly bought a XJ6 Coupe, but my wifr talked me into a Renault 25...Years later, but still a long time ago I went for an XJ12, but owing to a mix up the dealer sold it...At least I got my deposit back, I ended up with a Granada 2.8i " Huntsman" Estate (Half leather, fitted leather luggage, roof bars...)

Pictures will follow as soon as I have collected her.

Plans are to have her treated with dinitrol, a gearbox fluid and filter change (5R55N ford box) and a bluetooth double din unit, although I will keep the original if I want to put her back to original.

I can't wait to collect her! I feel like a little kid with his first bicycle....

Old Peter · July 4, 2017

Welcome to the club, Jim.

I wanted and S Type from when I saw a mate of mine restoring and early fifties Jaguar, but 30 years of company cars had me driving whatever I was given. Retirement saw a Rover 825 Sterling, an X Type 2.5 AWD, and then 4 years ago a 2007 plate S type, which is the best car I have ever driven.

You will enjoy the Jaguar experience.

Regards,

Peter.

Russ68 · July 4, 2017

Well done Jim, sounds great, glad you weren't talked out of it this time

Wishing you many long and happy years in her

Jim Elston · July 4, 2017

Thank you Peter and Russ. I am sure I will have many questions and yes I am glad I wasn't talked out of it. The Renault 25 was a complete disaster...I am sure I would still have the XJC....Still I have the S type. I am jumping every time the phone rings in case it is the dealer saying come and collect....

Russ68 · July 4, 2017

Those XJC's have been appreciating nicely, beautiful car, whereas I can't imagine there are many Renault 25's left! Anyhow, your new S-Type is a better daily drive than either of those, so better late than never

Jim Elston · July 5, 2017

Thank you Peter and Russ. I am sure I will have many questions and yes I am glad I wasn't talked out of it. The Renault 25 was a complete disaster...I am sure I would still have the XJC....Still I have the S type. I am jumping every time the phone rings in case it is the dealer saying come and collect....

Jim Elston · July 5, 2017

Hmm She failed her MOT on Headlamp aim and O/S and N/S rear tie bar/ball joint dust covers. There was a knock from underneath during the raod tests but the dealer thought this would be a front anti roll bar drop link.Nothing like this showed up. I ma sure that the dealer will find and attend to the knock. The advisories were:

Reason(s) for failure

Offside Headlamp aim beam image obviously incorrect (1.8.A.1b)

Nearside Rear Outer Tie bar/rod ball joint dust cover excessively deteriorated so that it no longer prevents the ingress of dirt (2.4.G.2)

Offside Rear Outer Tie bar/rod ball joint dust cover excessively deteriorated so that it no longer prevents the ingress of dirt (2.4.G.2)
Advisory notice item(s)

Windscreen has damage to an area less than a 40mm circle outside zone 'A' (8.3.1d)

Nearside Rear exhaust mount missing

Nearside Front Suspension arm rubber bush deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.2)

Offside Front Suspension arm rubber bush deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.2)

Nearside Front play in wheel bearing

Play in steering rack inner joint(s) ()

Parking brake lever has little reserve travel (3.1.6b)

Anything I should be too concerned about here?. I realise that I am not buying a new car so expect some items and she will be brought up to scratch! Thanks for any advice.

Lazlo Woodbine · July 5, 2017

Welcome. I'll tell you what I've learned from my experiences, of course this is just what I've found on my car, yours may differ somewhat;

I've had a bad experience with cheap replacement rear track-rods. The ball-joint (inner) ends on both had such play in them within only a few months that it made the car steer from the rear on the throttle, over bumps, braking etc. Bare in mind that parts have a 12 month warranty whether bought by a garage or private individual, but even so make sure they use a quality part.

Front drop links generally make a high frequency chattering type noise rather than a clunk or a knock. My hunch is ARB bushes, the knock from them is quite distinctive. The best way I can describe is "bonk-thonk" (tm). The bushes ovalise allowing the bar to move back and forth rather than twisting as it should. You can definitely hear it move one way and then the other and it will send quite a knock to your feet through the floor. The bushes are a pain to change so I think it's worth using Polybush replacements, they cost about a fiver more than standard ones and apparently last much longer. I fitted a pair earlier this year and they seem to be working just fine.

The rear exhaust mounting hooks hang off the rear bumper beam. It rusts around the hooks and the exhaust can end up supporting the hook not the other way round. My car has done this on the n/s and it's on the to-do list, I'll probably pop-rivet a plate on to attach the hook to rather than take it off and weld it. I would ask the garage to sort this out as a matter of course as it could cause exhaust problems sooner rather than later.

The handbrake is built into the rear caliper and the cam mechanism can seize up but they're easy to take of and clean without opening the hydraulics. I've done both of mine, one was like it when I bought the car and the other seized despite being in much more regular use than it was with the previous owner.

7 hours ago, Jim Elston said:

Nearside Front Suspension arm rubber bush deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.2)

Offside Front Suspension arm rubber bush deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement

That sounds like ARB drop links. In my experience if they're not in the first flush of youth they should be replaced if the ARB bushes are being done as they have to be removed for the job anyway and they probably won't last long if reused.

Inner front track-rod joints are available but I've never had need to work on mine so I can't tell you anything about them.

Of all the advisories though I would be most concerned by the front wheel bearing. The parts can be had quite cheaply but fitting them is a right pain. Also, it would be silly not to change the lower ball-joint at the same time as the hub has to come out to replace it anyway, again the part is cheap. It's almost certainly the most awkward job I've had to do to my S-type (touch wood) so I'd be inclined to insist on it being fixed as a matter of course, or at least for the cost of the parts.

I'm sorry if that all sounds a bit negative, it's not supposed to. However, if you're buying from a dealer under the pretence that the car's all in good working order then it's better to be informed and able to point out any faults that may be present before you do a mile in it.

Lazlo Woodbine · July 5, 2017

1 hour ago, Lazlo Woodbine said:

The handbrake is built into the rear caliper and the cam mechanism can seize up but they're easy to take of and clean without opening the hydraulics. I've done both of mine, one was like it when I bought the car and the other seized despite being in much more regular use than it was with the previous owner.

Scratch that. If course I had to open the hydraulics, I took the pistons out to get to the cam. I went a bit mad there for a minute Ted.

Jim Elston · July 5, 2017

Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated. I have messaged the dealer I am sure he will come through as he is just a few yards down the road from where I live, I know his mechanic extremely well and I also know where he lives! There are some advantages to living in such a small community! Word soon gets around as well! I will let you know how I get on and post some pics of her when I collect her. The main reason I chose this one was the MOT history, never a mention of corrosion or needing welding on any advisory in the past, so I have a solid base to work from.

Thanks once again

Jim

Russ68 · July 12, 2017

Any progress Jim? Hope it's gone well!

You mention corrosion, if you're not committed yet and or the dealer / mechanic is a good sort, ask them to take the sill covers off and have a look. I got off lightly, small patch on one side only, c£100 welding, plus £200 for Waxoly of complete underside, inc wheel arches. Some have been written off for what's under those covers, or more pertinently, what wasn't under those covers!

Just a thought as it lets you go in with your eyes open, hopefully yours will be pristine

Jim Elston · July 17, 2017

Well, I haven't collected her yet! She went for the re-test but the examiner went home early, That was a Friday, On The Monday o the way for the re-test the ABS warning light came on, dealer ordered one, supplier went to deliver but there was a bonb scare on the ferry so was again delayed. When it arrived it was the wrong one, dealer located right one on E-bay which arrived Saturday, Fitted it this morning and as a good will gesture replaced the front wheel bearing. All good? No! The new hub had a faulty speed sensor, he ordered and Wightlink cancelled a load of ferries which means the courier couldn't get across...Still at least the wheel bearing will be done saving one job.

Russ, I have paid for the car so I am a bit committed! Are you saying that because of the covers the sills would not be looked at on an MOT? I rejected some cars I looked at because of previous advisories mentioning corrosion, but this one never has had any mention.

I know a guy on the Island who is an absolute genius though and it will be going to him for a dintrol treatment and there is a small patch of lacquer peel above the N/S/F door so I will get him to investigate thoroughly....

I know this is an old car, but it is one I will probably keep, so fingers crossed. Even if I spend a couple of grand on her, what else could you get for the money that is anywhere near as good?

Hopefully tomorrow and I can post some pics!

Jim Elston · July 18, 2017

Got it, too busy driving all day to take pics....Loving it. Few minor things to attend to...nothing major. Dealer did ARB links, front wheel bearing, exhaust mount and play in steering inner arms...Very pleased indeed. Only advisories were screen and front suspension bushes...More later!

Jim Elston · July 18, 2017

Lovely car, of course you all knew that already. Roof lining needs attention and the air con doesn't work. I will try a re gas and service at Halfords for £49.00 and see what they come up with. Living on the Isle of Wight we have many boat trimmers and upholsterers so I will ask if any of them can do the roof lining, oh and the near side door mirror is a later one, so I will get one off of E-bay, chrome covers may be cheaper than getting it painted.

Car feels solid and planted on the road, took it down the Military road, the longest road on the Island, and the car handled very well. It is a beautiful coastal road with stunning views and a good surface, the acceleration on kick down was fantastic, better than I thought it would be, I can only imagine what the V8 and Supercharged versions would be like. This is enough for me...This one is a keeper, as I am sure they will achieve classic status.

Carole Simpson-Hadley · July 19, 2017

Sounds like you are a happy bunny. My partner and I agree that the S seems to be teetering on the verge of modern classic; in fact, several appear in each of the Modern Classic Auctions which are held here and there.

With regard to the initial "niggles" , there's usually going to be something and, unless it's a major issue, is all part of the ownership experience. After all, no S is going to be any younger than 10 years now. Although our '07 S was lowish mileage when we bought it a year ago (53K covered), we still had a few teething problems within the first 3 months.......brake servo called time, as did one of the EGR valves, but our local Indie came up trumps. Even our '07 XK which we bought in April last year with only 6600 on the clock had a little issue when we discovered that, because it had sat for such extended periods without being moved, the tyres had developed flat spots. Hey ho and get on with it!!

With regard to your headlining, perhaps you could pretend to be Mr Shaw from Car SOS and blag a freebie! Then again!

Enjoy the experience, no doubt the obligatory Jaguar smiley face is already resident in your home?

As always, happy growling

Russ68 · July 19, 2017

Great! Another club member and enthusiast on the Island

Actually the local JEC are quite active and the they have an annual show you can take the Jag to in August. Normally at Havenstreet but this year at Sandown Airport. I'll be missing this year as we're away, but I've attended the last 2 and it's great, contact Keith for details, he's on their website etc. The S-Type is definitely a 'neo classic' IMO. It looks like a proper Jaguar and once rust and fashion have thinned out the herd, people will start appreciating how good they are, as I'm sure we already do.

May I recommend James Garage in Newport for the AC recharge rather than Halfrauds, he'll put a tracker dye in so any fault can be identified. £60 not £49 but worth it IMO. Mine needs recharging again so glad we did this so can see where we have the leak. St Helen's Garage can do your keys and have the full diagnostics should this be required, and if you don't do your own spannering, do you have a trusted mechanic / garage?

Have you posted pics? I'll keep an eye out for you

Old Peter · July 19, 2017

Hi Ron, and other S type owners,

I read your post with interest, and I think you have hit the nail on the head in regards to the Jaguar Mk 2.

The Jaguar Mark 2 was produced in 1959 and at first had the XK 3.4 litre engine, plus its other two cousins, the 3.8 litre and the 2.4 litre engines. There were several other differences from Jaguar models, with much less luxurious fittings, including the them new seat material known as Rexine.

The Mark X Jaguar was introduced in 1961 and had many technical refinements such as independent rear suspension [which also went into the E Type] and a triple SU carburettor system to accompany the 3.8 litre XK engine. Bill Lyons was soon made aware that the Mark 2 was needing anordered an updated version of the Mark 2. The Code name of the Mark 2 was the "Utah II " and the new model was code named the "Utah III". The new model, although identical in looks to the Mark 2 was more luxurious and had the independent rear suspension instead of the live rear axle. It would have had the triple carburettor couple with the 3.8 litre engine, but the engine bay was not big enough and the car was sold with a twin carburettor system. The cars Sporty looks suited the name "S type" and that is how the car was marketed.

The Mark X was renamed the Jaguar 420G and was developed further and the Jaguar 420 appeared and was given the 4.2 litre engine, which suited the American Market and was designed to replace the Mark 2 and S Type, but because they were selling well they were retained. Jaguar were sell 4 models at the same time. and eventually all were replace by the XJ6.

The S type as we know it could well have had the mundane name as Jagusr Mark 3, bur Jaguar was then owned by Ford and Geoff Lawson pressed the company into letting him design a "real" Jaguar instead of a rebadged Ford, as had been done with the first X Types which were Ford Mondeo Ghias with a Jaguar Badge and which sold less that 100 cars before Ford saw the error of their ways, as it were, and let the Jaguar design team make proper Jaguars. The face life version of the S type was designed by Ian Callum who was the then head of the design department.

I think that the S Type is a future classic, and when TATA feel a bit nostalgic, they might well produce an electric/hybrid car that uses the style of the S type and could be called the S Type Mark 4.

I hope people fine this interesting,

Regards,

Peter.

Jim Elston · July 19, 2017

Thanks for all the replies! I will definitely take the advice on where to go for the Air Con Re-gas. I have a couple of trusted mechanics, JR Motors in Ryde and Tom Hitchcock, also in Ryde.

In answer to one question, I have an almighty grin! My last car was an MX5, which caused a lot of grins, before that a Ford Cougar - very underrated, but the Jaguar is everything I wanted. Not too much tech as I don't particularly want to be a mobile hot spot and don't feel the need to be connected! This is an S so does not have cruise or remote controls for the stereo but has has enough for me and I feel involved in driving it. Handles better than the Cougar although that was front wheel drive. It gets around the corners very nicely without shaking my fillings out like the MX5 and of course I can take the dog and the grandkids.

This is the subjective bit, to me it looks like a jaguar should, I prefer it to newer models, I too have to catch the reflection of it in shop windows.

The niggles? part of the ownership and "bonding" with it! Pictures tomorrow!!!

Jim Elston · July 19, 2017

Some better pics will follow...

Jim Elston · July 19, 2017

I just read an article on the S Type on the excellent ARO online. A repository of all things Austin Rover, they also have great articles on other marques and some really in depth articles on prototypes, concepts, what might have beens...This article however states that the pre 2003 S types were disappointing to drive, having bought a sixteen year old example and loving it, I don't think that statement is quite right? Does anyone else disagree?

Carole Simpson-Hadley · July 20, 2017

Looks good in the pics, Jim, and my partner and I agree with Ron....it is what it is and if you're happy then .

When we were looking for a S, we looked at quite a few of the early ones and would have been quite content, but the one we bought ('07 thus the facelift, and a SE to boot) probably swung it because it was a local car which we discovered on Pistonheads. Also, it had not been "played with" in any way; no add-ons and mods, stickers in the windows etc, but exactly as it had left the factory, as was the case with our '07 XK.

With regard to the early models being "disappointing", let's remember that at the time you could still get a Rover 800 (fine in their way) or a Ford Scorpio or a Vauxhall Omega; and both my partner and I know which one we should prefer! Most importantly, the S can still turn heads if it is well presented; not sure about the other models mentioned, and there aren't too many of those mentioned about anyway.

Enjoy the S, and my partner says do make sure the ferry is in when you drive down the slipway.......S-types don't go well under water.

As always, happy growling

Jim Elston · July 20, 2017

Thanks for the replies, and I completely agree with Carole! The thing for me is how a car makes me feel.

Way back when I had a Cortina Mk111 GXL automatic, Metallic green with a cream vinyl roof. I loved it and felt really special driving it for some indefinable reason. A few years later I bought a Mk11 1600E which should have been just as involving, but sadly no although I had four different Granadas and out of all of them my Mk1 estate is the one I would have kept, it got stolen alas. Jobs and company cars then came and a succession of Mk V Cortinas, Sierras, Mondeos and so on never did it. After I moved to the Island I had a Daihatsu 4 Track that "did it" but succumbed to rot. I had an oddball Chrysler Neon which was horrid. I bought an Escort Van which I need for my musical gear and have kept it paid silly money for it nd it keeps going. It means I don't need an estate or shogun or similar, it's great for the dog, moving, doing gigs picking up white goods, clearing garden rubbish and it means I don't have to compromise on the car I have. I bought a Mk 1 MX5 which I really thought would have that illusive "something". It didn't really so in my quest I had seats made in colour coordinated leather, chrome dashboard accents, additional instrumentation, coil overs, Poly bushes, custom exhaust and so on. After all that all I had was a vague feeling of disappointment and a large hole in my wallet. A lot of fun on a B road miserable on a motorway and a risk of sunburn with the roof down.. I have some good memories of it but it wasn't IT, whatever "it" is!

Following ill health and a few issues I had a small budget. I could have stretched to a high mileage early XF but fell in love ith the S Type. I drove an XJ V8 which while undeniably nice just wasn't me. I looked across autotrader and then on a dealer forecourt 100 yards from my house, this S Type turned up. It's MOT history was good, she is in lovely condition and was way under my budget, my feeling is that if I have a good base then I can afford to have her brought up to scratch. There is almost nothing I want to change (Unusual for me) Perhaps a mesh grill and a leaper, although I am undecided on that. I will have a Kenwood double din stereo fitted so I have DAB and can easily use my phone. Although I am going to keep the original to return to the original look. That is all I plan apart from making sure she is mechanically as good as she can be.I love driving her, I love the view over the bonnet, the shapes and contours, rather than the flat anodyne bonnets of some more modern cars. Whatever "IT" is, this car has it!

Old Peter · July 20, 2017

Hi Jim,

I have a 2007 model which left the production line on the 13th March 2013. Good solid car. Although I have fitted a leaper, The car is the same as it left the factory.

You car has the "Waterfall" which is the traditional grill for the Jaguar Mark 1, Mark 2 and the 1963 - 69 S Type -- I would be incline to keep it.

Regards,

Peter.

Regards

Carole Simpson-Hadley · July 20, 2017

Wonderful, glad you are happy and "way under budget" is a decided bonus as well! With regard to the MX5, an ex-colleague of my partner had one, and my partner says that when, on two occasions, he drove it, he couldn't see what all the fuss was about......as you say, definitely didn't have "IT".

My partner was originally looking at acquiring a Series 1 or 2 RR Silver Shadow, but when it came down to it, something wasn't quite right. We then found ourselves looking at a Bentley Arnage as the high days and holidays motor, with a S-type as more regular use (we also have a Citroen Picassa as the "lorry/dog taxi"etc etc). My partner then exclaimed "there's only two of us and we travel light" so, for high days etc, why do we need more than 2 seats?! Enter our '07 XK and the S-type for more regular use.....and, yep, they both most definitely have "IT". Never looked back. Strange folk, aren't we!

With regard to add-ons, we are definitely in the "as it left the factory" corner. Our S had a mesh grille at production, and we do, actually, think the mesh grille looks better. With regard to a bonnet-mounted leaper, it's not for us unless we can afford a nice Mk2 which had it from new. That's just us, and we suppose that we haven't got the courage to drill holes in a perfectly serviceable bonnet! We, as you seem to be, fall firmly in the "as good as she can be" category, and that is the satisfying part of ownership. No crawling around underneath anymore, but plenty of carnauba wax, tyre gel, cotton buds and what have you.

Looks like you have definitely been bitten by the Growler bug, first symptom of which is a permanent facial grin when behind the wheel.