My V6 - Previous owner lunatic

[Martygrohl]

So I caught a bargain on Saturday past, a nice looking Jaguar X type 2.5 V6 AWD (2004).

A classic burgundy body with cream leather interior, most of which is great for the age. Very slight bubbling on the wheel arches will start to be a problem over the next 2 years, and both front sills have rusted through with one being repaired quite shoddily.

Half expected this for the year and price.

Inside though, under the aesthetics I can only imagine live a great number of gremlins. First major point of concern is that some ignoramus has carefully applied black tape over the EML, ABS and one other cluster light. Luckily I have an OBD reader and software to run a minor test which flags up the codes as shown in the attached image (4 engine, 1 brake). I'll get into the cluster sometime this week and take this tape off, seems to be easier to do than some other cars.

I've ran the codes to find what they relate to, but as usual they are quite generic and can propose several different possible issues. If anyone has had experience with them themselves and can give advice, it would be appreciated. Looking to eventually take this to Jaguar and get a full report from them along with pro advice.

Despite these codes there doesn't seem to be much wrong with the drive, and nothing feels exceptionally wrong. That was until I drove to work this morning in the rain and although this is an AWD, I managed to crash into the back of another car after slowing down from 40 toward a junction like I have done a million times before, yet the brakes here froze up with little application, skidding me along and disallowing me to turn away (extremely easy oversteer issue). If anyone has experienced this also, it'd be great to know I'm not the only one that a new (used) car has made look like total incompetent.

Along with that braking issue, the handbrake is completely loose and barely holds the car on a small incline. This should be quite a mechanical fix though so I'll check that out this week too.

The registration right now, as the previous owner is still moving over their private reg, is: X25 ALN. If anyone has known the owner or if they have taken the car to meetups etc in the past, it'd be good to know, because they've taken care of the outside but they've been completely immoral with it inside. I'm half expecting to find a welded split along the middle of the chassis somewhere.

Other than these tremendous issues, I'm really looking to bring this Jag back to scratch and get everything sorted properly. It could eventually become a weekend car even when I do get a new lease. Be an utter shame for a car like this to be a wreck for sheer arrogance.

[Claws]

Hi Marty

Welcome to the JOC, Cant help with the codes, but from what you've mentioned, I would ask for my money back, clearly the ABS is not working, I believe hiding warning lights is illegal, and only god knows what else is not working. you are also now at fault with an RTA, did the car come with a 'NEW' Mot?

regards

Steve

[Andy X400 3.0]

I believe ( correct me if i'm wrong ) the ABS light must be working properly to pass a MOT and EML is not a MOT failure . I had the same kind of problem with mine when i bought it EML light not working at all . I had the cluster apart as far as i dare go and am no nearer finding out what the problem is . There are no codes showing and the car runs spot on so i am not that concerned about it . I would certainly try getting my money back as someone has clearly been trying to hide something .

Regards ,

Andy .

[Martygrohl]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yeh I think, despite the usual petrol head enthusiasm, I'm gona have to take this straight back. I dare invite anyone in for a drive now.

FYI with the crash I mentioned, I think I must have been at about 10-15 when we hit and luckily there was 0% damage. Made me completely scarce on the throttle and timid in traffic for the rest of the day. Back to the bus tomorrow.

You're right it is illegal to meddle with the cluster in anyway, covering up significant signs especially. The EML light should be a fail in the MOT, part of the changes to the test over the past year or two.

The ad for the car listed a 12 month MOT, BUT DVLA shows it runs out in September.

[JOE-DOT-COM]

Hi

If you look on the "VEHICLE SMART" app and type in the reg, the mileage on this reg goes up and down, and stays low on the last year

also has quite a few mot failures in its history

it worth having a look at it

or look on dvla here https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

cheers

Joe

[Martygrohl]

Thanks for that!

Yeh the ad had said 150,000 miles, but then the odometer suggest 75,000. A few ugly things have been hidden with this car.

I'll check that out, thanks again!

[Carole Simpson-Hadley]

Hi Marty

What rotten luck.  My partner says you have a clear case under The Consumer Rights Act 2015 (superseding The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982), specifically that the car is not as described and is not fit for purpose.

Your local Citizens Advice can refer you to your local Trading Standards Dept., but your first action has to be to approach the seller/dealer to either remedy the faults (don't think I should be too trusting there!) or repay your money on return of the car to them.   You must do this first, or it would be considered, should the matter end up in court, that you didn't take reasonable steps to solve the situation with the seller/dealer before going to legal action.

Quoting what your intended action may be, may galvanise the seller into action, but you most certainly should not lie back and ignore the issues.   Also, do remember that if there was an incident as a result of a fault with the car, you, initially, would be liable.  Sounds like you have already had one lucky escape!

Good luck 

[Martygrohl]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Phoned them up there and as expected they were trying to weasel in, 'oh I'm going to have to talk to the person that brought it in first' and 'we'll have to bring it in and check it out ourselves and make an attempt to repair it before a refund'. I told them the issues, the potentially severe crash and that I was bringing it back for a refund only.

So they said they'd call me back, regardless it will be getting driven back (with caution) on Sunday/Monday to get that refund hell or high water.

Why there's humans on this earth that cause issue for no reason and very little gain is beyond me.

They even tried to weasel out of the blatantly stated '12 month MOT' that was advertised, suggesting that they told me this when I picked it up, but I don't remember hearing that nor does it dismiss the advertised description.

(Attaching the advert here for contingency)

Used Jaguar X-type Saloon 2.pdf

[Claws]

hi Marty

I'm no expert but, they are entitled to attempt to rectify the problem/s, it matters not, what the condition of the car was when they bought it, they are however responsible for the condition of the car when they sell it! I know you stated your RTA was really minor, but unfortunately some individuals, shall we say start 'getting ideas' afterwards, so be wary, did you test drive the car before you handed over your money?

I note they have offered a 3 month warranty, did you attempt to get the car sorted under the warranty? I only ask because it may be important, other members of the JOC will be more knowledgeable than me! do you by chance know if the seller did their own MOT test (i.e. had their own MOT testing garage facilities on site?)

The advert actually contradicts it's self as it mentions "Long MOT" then next line down "12 months MOT" there appears to be something that could be described as a disclaimer on the next page "Some of the information on our adverts is automatically generated and may be inaccurate, therefore we advise you to check the specification with us prior to purchase"  whether that includes the MOT statement I don't know?

I know this will cost a couple of quid, but unless you are a qualified mechanic, it may be worth getting it to an independent garage and get a report to support your challenge, because if there are obvious faults, such as ABS that an idiot could have spotted, then you may (if required) have a case to support the validity of the last MOT she received. Not wishing to teach you how to suck eggs, but any communication between yourself and the seller, if poss keep copies of.

Hopefully as previously mentioned, others will chip in with more info

Regards

Steve

[Martygrohl]

Hi thanks for the reply,

I gained little knowledge about what the previous owner had done when they brought in the car, the dealer just suggested that the car was great as they know that person. They didn't suggest to know about the tape over the EML and ABS lights though.

I hadn't tried the car prior to purchase as I was advertised a solidly working car that came with a full MOT as stated and the warranty. Despite that however, I likely would have still went through with the purchase as the drivability of the car away from the dealership was generally ok. BUT of course the lights were illuminated, yet covered.

The codes and the fact that it is a Jaguar suggest that any repairs would reach beyond £1000 anyway, so the dealers best option is likely a refund. The car will not pass an MOT anytime soon considering the issues. I believe any disclaimer like that on an advertisement would be considered mute also, otherwise you could advertise the car as a blue Peugeot when it's actually a red Jag. There's a reason there are advertising standards to be fair.

Advice services also suggest: "You have a right to reject something faulty and you are entitled to a full refund within 30 days of purchase in most cases".

After this, off used cars indefinitely.

[Claws]

Understood, so will leave it there.

However, don't be necessarily put off with used cars, there are of course some dogs out there, but also some gems! I've never bought a new car, and had some used ones that lasted for years! this is my 2nd year with my 'S' type, yes she cost me a couple of grand to get her right over the time I've had her, but she is so reliable, a pleasure to own, and has just recently passed her MOT with no advisories.

but of course the choice is yours

Please keep us informed.

Regards

Steve

[Andy X400 3.0]

As Steve says , don't be put off used cars . My X-Type had numerous problems ( nothing major ) and i have gradually worked through everything and as my car is my hobby i have spent a couple of grand getting the car just as i want it , new wheels , hydro dipped carbon dash , refurbed calipers ( £300 ) , mesh grille top and bottom , all front bulbs upgraded , you get the picture . The car is 99% how i want it , it looks great , drives fantastic and always puts a smile on my face . Money well spent in my eyes . I will probably be fed up when i have nothing more to do to it lol  

[Martygrohl]

Hi, thanks for the replies.

There's a certain limit you reach with used cars though, ones that need endless maintenance and input. My previous Jeep was on stilts for the majority of the time I had it, and as much as I like working on cars, it misses the point of needing a daily. As I said before, I would have loved to have kept this to bring it right up to scratch, but there's way too many unknowns. Kudos to those who continue though, big time.

I was trying to get a lease to avoid all those issues full stop but my mind was swayed with this guys false claim of an ad.

Returned the car, just as I got it, cleaner in fact. It was manky inside before.

Dealer gave me BS against a refund, about it being a Sunday (it's 2017 mate, BACS works 24/7 regardless of it being a religious day of rest), that he had to get in touch with the previous owner (not my problem, my transactions with you not him), that he had to send it in to the workshop (not my problem anyway, I've asked for an entitled refund). All these brutal excuses being rambled again and again when all I was asking for is a straight up refund as it's within the 30 day sale period, the car wasn't as advertised (engine and brake issues that were omitted, as well as no 12 month MOT) and the car was returned as was complete with paper work and keys, no issue.

I just cannot believe there are people on the planet that have such limited perspective, aren't self aware, merely live to cause issue to others and embody the classically overplayed image of a dodgy car dealer. It's as simple as business can be, know what you're selling.

He's now continuing to make me wait on a report from his mechanic until he will 'talk to me further about a refund', whilst whatever comes back as wrong with the car is 0% my issue.

-----

Perhaps a rant not aligned specifically with Jaguar, but just the experience of the whole thing with a car as neat as that having been mistreated as much as it has been 'shakes head'.

To end, this guy's a pain in the *** but Jaguar X-type 2.5 V6's are quite enjoyable to drive for the most part. That's some power and grumble under the bonnet, forever classic.

[Old Peter]

Hi Marty,

I would inform the Trading Standards Officer in your locality.  You also have a good case in court.  I have found that often  a letter which indicates that you are taking the matter to Court and will  publicise the matter.  I would then give him 7 days to make the refund.

Unfortunately there are some crooks around!

Regards,

Peter.