2007 S Type 2.7 Code P0404 & Restricted Performance

[keithstype27]

Hi, I have been lucky enough to own my 2.7 S Type for 9 years without any major difficulties. In the last few weeks I have occasionally had the Restricted Performance light (amber) come on and the car then lacks acceleration and generally has a lack of overall power. If I switched the engine off and waited a few second before restarting, the problem didn't repeat.

However, a few days ago this Restricted Performance came on and now refuses to go away. It always comes on once the engine is up to running temperature.

I purchased the icarsoft i930 code reader and code P0404 is the result. This code is EGR valve related.

I have since tried two tins of Wynn's EGR cleaner into the air intake and toward the end of this process, the cars rpm failed to increase during the treatment. The information on the tin says if this happens, stop the treatment and contact you workshop. 

I have checked my records regarding the service of my Jag and find that although the car has done 11000 (eleven thousand) miles since the last Oil and filter change, the period has been almost two years. I generally don't use the car for short journeys but I'm wondering if the EGR problem could be related?

Have any other members had similar problems and if so, what was the cause please?

[Old Peter]

Hi Keith,

I have tried the Wynns EGR cleaner with some intermittent success, but I was advised to use Millers Diesel Power Eco plus and it has worked a treat as I have had the code P0402  only once, and a quick squirt into the fuel tank did the job and it took just about 5 minutes running the car.  Worth a try.

Regards,

Peter.

[keithstype27]

Hi Peter, Many thanks for replying.

I saw one of your previous replies to another member on here advising the use of Millers Eco Plus so I have some ready to use as soon as I fill up with fuel.

Thanks again

 

Keith

[david moore]

I took my EGR valve off and cleaned it, but this has now been some years ago !  I did check if the plunger inside worked when under vacuum, lucky for me ive only had a few little issues which I have managed to fix myself. the last time I had bad smoke and lack of power was my boost pipe had blew off from the intercooler due to a jubilee clip had rusted, 

[keithstype27]

Thank you David. Unfortunately the S Type 2.7 has two EGR valves, one either side of the engine and they are very different to the X Type.

 

Regards

 

Keith

[keithstype27]

If anyone should be following this or have similar problems in the future, I will catalogue my efforts to rectify this problem as I go along, choosing the cheapest options first.

1. Have used 2 full cans of EGR valve cleaner sprayed into the air intake. Initially the car responded in the way it said on the can, ie, the rpm increased with each short spray, however toward the end of the second tin the engine rpm stopped increasing. The info' on the tin states that if the engine rpm does NOT increase when spraying the mixture into the air intake, stop the procedure and consult your workshop!! (I have emailed Wynn's asking what this may mean)

2. Millers Diesel Power Ecomax added to fuel, 2 x 50ml

3. Car has been serviced, engine Oil and filter (in case Oil has been diluted), fuel filter and air filter (pollen filter too).

so far, the car feels smoother but still lacks power and despite clearing the P0404 fault code with the Jaguar specific Icarsoft i930, the code returns as son as the engine gets warm.

Having read numerous online reports of EGR problems, my car seems to lack the black smoke and rough idling symptoms.

[keithstype27]

Having considered trying the Terraclean option to see if it would clean my EGR valve(s) I've just had the following response from a nearby Terraclean authorised company. I believe this suggests that their process will not effectively clean an EGR valve. I have no idea how effective it may be on other parts of the engine and fuel intake section but with this response I won't be taking up the option.

 

"Thank you for your enquiry regarding Terraclean We can offer this service for both petrol and diesel vehicles prices are below :

Up to 2l petrol :£111

Over 2l petrol £129

Up to 2l diesel £117

Over 2l diesel but up to 4l £135

over 4l ring for price

all prices include vat

To book an appointment or for more information please call us and we will be happy to assist you further

If you have fault codes relating to a possible egr fault you would be better getting is diagnosed first as a Terraclean may not help if the EGR is faulty and that may need replacing/ taking off and cleaning before a Terraclean would be of benefit"

[Old Peter]

When I had my S type Terracleaned 5 years ago, the mechanic who did the jog did not mention the EGR valves or the DPF.  What he did say was that it would clean the engine which I guess would refer to the fuel system --  it was in reality a de-coke.

He did advise the use of premium fuel, though, which did make a difference.

Peter.

[keithstype27]

Hi Peter, Thanks for your reply.  I have heard numerous good reports re Terraclean, however I think it very misleading on some I've seen to suggest that the process can clean an EGR valve. My understanding now is that their 'solution' burns within the compression cycle so none would be left to do anything to the EGR valve on it's way out.

My email to them was a hopeful one, perhaps expecting some encouraging remarks re their special egr cleaning technique I've seen advertised but as you can see, there was no mention of it in their reply.

I have been using Millers Diesel Power EcoMax additive for a hundred or so miles and it does seem to be a little smoother, however it has made no difference to the P0404 code that keeps returning as soon as the engine gets warm and the lack of power (restricted performance) remains.

Oh well, I suppose I now need to take my S Type 2.7 to an independent Jaguar specialist for their assessment and probably then a replacement pair of EGR valves. I'll update on any progress come the new year.

[Old Peter]

Hi Keith,

I have used a mobile mechanic since 2002 and he has never let me down. Since I retired in 1999 and the company cars ended, I have had three cars, a 1999 Rover Sterling, and X Type, and for the last five and a half years my s type and never had a problem he could not fix.  He is based in Erdington.  He knows abut cars of every description!  If you are in the North end of the City it would be worth getting him to have a look.

Regards,

Peter.

[keithstype27]

Hi Peter, Thank you so much for your reply.

I would be most grateful for his contact details please 🙂

Regards

Keith

[keithstype27]

An update re my continuing efforts to discover the cause of fault code P0404 and the lack of power.

I have not yet spoken to a specialist as I have been busy reading through numerous forum posts on these symptoms and similar symptoms and am keen to see if I can find the cause of the problem without spending too much money - something I assume we all prefer to do.

To recap. My S Type 2.7 2007 model  continually shows the RP light on and the car has no power, as if the turbos just won't kick in (I do not for one moment suspect the turbos to be at fault - it just feels like that) Fault Code P0404 (EGR Control - Circuit Range / Performance) was present. The 2.7 has two EGR valves, one on either side of the engine.

Apart from the the obvious EGR valve potentially being at fault (either of both of them as P0404 does not refer to a specific EGR) I have noticed on a few forum posts that owners have had similar symptoms when they have had a faulty MAF sensor. The 2.7 has 2 x MAF sensors, an upper (A) and a lower (B) housed in a split tube layout running directly from the air filter housing box behind the coolant radiator.

To test the MAF sensors I have used my icarsoft i930 code reader and accessed the live data stream information relating to airflow through both MAF sensors but it does not show the individual sensor readings. This is overcome by dividing the total reading by two for an approximate 50/50 reading. With the engine at idle, my reading for the total of both MAF sensors is 24.50 g/s (+ or - a bit as it fluctuates). I read on another forum post that each MAF should be showing around 6 g/s so the total should read around 12 g/s.!!!!!

To test each MAF individually, I simply disconnected the top MAF (bank A) wiring and the data stream reading showed 11.03 g/s using just Bank B

On replacing the top ( bank A) wiring and removing the bottom MAF (bank B) wiring I had a reading of 9.16 g/s from Bank A

I tried driving the car with the separate MAF's disconnected and then with both MAF's disconnected and the RP light stayed on throughout and the lack of power was still present HOWEVER, the P0404 EGR code was NOT present and did not recur at any time. Hoorayyy!!!

 

(The MAF codes P0100 (Bank A) and P010A (Bank B) were present when the two MAF's were disconnected. I assume these codes will also cause the RP light to come on because the P0404 EGR code did not show up) but the RP light was on throughout and the lack of power remains.

From these tests I assume that the EGR fault code P0404 is being caused by the MAF readings being excessive, either separately or jointly, sending an incorrect signal to the EGR valve that then tries to adjust itself to compensate.

I have now ordered two replacement (used) MAF sensors to test my theory and will update again once these have been fitted.

Please chip in if my assumptions are wrong and feel free to correct any stage as my intention is to share as much as possible. Many forum posts give the symptoms of a problem and subsequently show various opinions as to how to correct the problem but then fail to show the results, so we can't learn from them.

 

 

 

[Old Peter]

Hi Keith,

I have just had the same experience, and what I did was to call out the AA on Sunday morning.

Result:- As below.

The AA mechanic was brilliant and his testing showed that the OBD2 diagnosis of Code P0404 was a faulty EGR valve that was causing the gas circulation  around the valves and was the left side ]EGR valve 1] that was completely dead.  I already knew the code P0402 was valve 2 not working correctly.  Diagnosis was EGR valves were in need of replacement.

Carl has ordered 2 EGR valves and as he is on holiday next week he is fitting them on 22nd Jan.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Peter.

[keithstype27]

Hi Peter, I am very sorry to hear that you too have similar problems with your 2.7 S Type. I'm grateful for you sharing this info with me.

I expect Carl will verify these faults before he replaces the EGR valves on your car, just in case it is the MAF faults affecting the EGR sensors.(I am an optimist aren't I ?)

I shall be away on holiday from Thursday so will not be updating until I get back and have had a chance to swap out the MAF sensors on my car. I'm rather hoping my fault is just MAF sensors...if not I'm likely to be in the same boat as yourself. Oh well, at least we know our cars are worth it.

Thanks you again and I hope all goes well with your car.

 

Regards

Keith

 

[Old Peter]

Hi Keith,

I hope you have a good holiday.  ---  And the cost of two new EGR valves  supplied and fitted by Carl is £420 which is rather good.  Carl will check everything out first.  I could hear No. 1 valve clicking which means it was refusing to open. [P0404]

Regards,

Peter.

[keithstype27]

Hi Peter, Thank you very much for this information. I hope it all goes well.

I may well need to call on Carl myself soon.

 

Regards

 

Keith

[Andy Norton]

Has anyone considered or carried out blanking off the EGR valves, this seems very popular with the 2.7 ltr Jaguar/Range Rover engine, does it work ?

[Old Peter]

Hi Andy,

I had heard that blanking off the EGR valves presents a problem because they operate electrically. It appears that only a partial block can be done.

At the same time I would be wary of what can happen with the MOT. Currently the tester has to do a visual exhaust test  and an automatic fail could be made possible by the Government.

Regards,

Peter.

 

[Andy Norton]

Good evening Peter

Thank you very much for your reply but must admit being a "newbie" its left me a bit confused, what will be achieved by partially blocking off the EGR surely this will still allow the problem with failing EGRs to remain, I have been looking on a number of website where blanking plates can be sourced and all of these are full blanking plates

Would appreciate any advice

Regards

Andy

[Old Peter]

Hi Andy,

Personally I don't feel the anything will be achieved by blocking off the EGR valves.  Experts designed these rather good engines, and it is the government + climate control regulations the has introduced  EGR Valves, DPFs, and other additions to the exhaust systems.

Not being a design engineer I tend to go along with the principle that I should manage my car in the condition it left the factory. [mine left the production line in Castle Bromwich on 13th March 2007, and only the Leaping Jaguar on the bonnet is what is different.

The engine is the same - no remapping or similar "improvements" -- the exhaust will last as long as the car being of stainless steel and I guess the car will last as long as me. [I am now heading towards my 85th Birthday.]

The cost of maintenance of a Jaguar is not that high if you look towards preventing problems rather than fixing them after the event.

My recommendation is Premium fuel and the odd additive.  Changing the Oil when it needs doing.  Checking the tyres, the battery, and the engine fluids. 

But that's just me.  I have a degree in nitpicking but it does seem to work.

Regards,

Peter.

 

[O.T.H]

I'm with you on this one Peter --Things are fitted on there for a reason ??

All the best

Frank.

 

 

[keithstype27]

UPDATE 20th Jan 2019

Having removed and cleaned the MAP sensor ( a very easy procedure) the fault code P0404 remains, although the car seems to run a little smoother yet again.

All of my attempts to remedy the Restricted Performance fault code P0404 have so far failed but all have improved the running of the car.

I have also used a can of Wynn's Extreme EGR cleaner (sprayed directly into the air intake with the air filter removed first) but the P0404 code remains, I can clear the code with the Icarsoft i930 but it returns immediately.

Next procedure will be to replace both MAF sensors.

 

 

[Andy Norton]

Best of luck with it Keith, please keep us updated

 

Andy

[Old Peter]

Hi Keith,

The restricted performance message on my S type was diagnosed by the AA as one faulty EGR valve P0402, and one that was not working at all  -  P0404.

The car will be collected this evening for both to be replaced.  More information as to the result tomorrow afternoon!

Peter.

[keithstype27]

Hi Peter, Many thanks for the continued support. I will be very interested to hear the result of Carl's assessment.

I have not found any information online to state that P0404 means that one of the EGR valves is not working at all but if correct, this could be the end of my 'searching' to establish the cause of my P0404 RP problem.

There seem to be numerous forum stories of EGR related codes but alas, no follow up entries to confirm the cause.

 

Many thanks again

Regards

Keith