XF drive wobble

[dglick]

I have a 2015 2.2  Diesel XF on about 45k miles

Car is in great condition, well looked after, but has developed a wobble.

Very hard to describe but feels like every dint in the road is exaggerated, and every road without any holes or bumps, you can still feel an exra wobble as it drives (any speed) - almost like every few revolutions of wheels its going over a small bump.

Its just been in for 4 year service and MOT, at Jaguar which is passed with flying colours, and they confirmed the suspension is fine.

tyres all ok, apart from one which has a puncture repaired.

Jaguar recommended balancing the wheels, to fix the problem which they did - at a steep cost, and this has resulted in the wobble being more noticeable, not less.

What makes me nervous is that I had similar problem with my last car an S-type which resulted in me replacing nearly every suspension part possible, but it never really went - just cost a fortune, and that was not via Jaguar, but a local garage.

Any thoughts / clues appreciated ?

 

[Leopard]

On 3/25/2019 at 6:58 AM, dglick said:

I have a 2015 2.2  Diesel XF on about 45k miles

Car is in great condition, well looked after, but has developed a wobble.

Very hard to describe but feels like every dint in the road is exaggerated, and every road without any holes or bumps, you can still feel an exra wobble as it drives (any speed) - almost like every few revolutions of wheels its going over a small bump.

Its just been in for 4 year service and MOT, at Jaguar which is passed with flying colours, and they confirmed the suspension is fine.

Tyres all ok, apart from one which has a puncture repaired.

Jaguar recommended balancing the wheels, to fix the problem which they did - at a steep cost, and this has resulted in the wobble being more noticeable, not less.

What makes me nervous is that I had similar problem with my last car an S-type which resulted in me replacing nearly every suspension part possible, but it never really went - just cost a fortune, and that was not via Jaguar, but a local garage.

Any thoughts / clues appreciated ?

 

I have a similar issue with my Facelift XFS. Have you found the culprit?

[dglick]

No, but Jaguar are doing a drive test with me tomorrow, so they can feel the problem, and then investigate. I'm not holding my breath though - as I have had this before with a previous Jaguar, and ended up changing so many bits of suspension, and never go tot the bottom of it (Admittedly that want with a Jag dealer, but a private garage)

[Leopard]

Can you please report your findings for me as I'm very interested in the outcome. So far I've replaced wheels, tyres and have had the wheels balanced for the umteenth time and still not really making things any better. Would be much appreciated 👍

[O.T.H]

I had the same problem with a volvo many years ago  and that was a tyre--it looked OK and with good tread but

had a raised hard spot ???

An easy check-- I would jack the car up until the wheel just clears the floor  then turn the wheel if the tyre and wheel is true it will spin OK ????

Frank

[dglick]

SO Went on a drive with a Jaguar engineer

His verdict is all suspension fine, but a common problem "apparently" is when the tyres wear down (mine are good Pirellii tyres, about half way through their life) - they causes a wobble with Jaguars.

Only fix would be to put new tyres on, and then he said it would come back as tyres wear down.

He has been working with Jaguars all his life, and said he gets asked this all the time. He seems to think its the direction Jaguar have gone with their suspension -=instead of luxury you feel every bump in the road

Find it all unbelievable personally as the car was as smooth as anything when I bought it 12 months ago !

 

[Leopard]

I dont agree with the whole 'blame the tyre' theory. I was originally on Dunlop Sportmaxx and changed all 4 tyres for top of the range Pirelli's (there are two variants available), and after great expense found the car to be no better. I've got a theory that it may be spring related and they may have relaxed unevenly and have different preload thus giving a choppy ride.

[Leopard]

On 4/9/2019 at 5:42 AM, dglick said:

SO Went on a drive with a Jaguar engineer

His verdict is all suspension fine, but a common problem "apparently" is when the tyres wear down (mine are good Pirellii tyres, about half way through their life) - they causes a wobble with Jaguars.

Only fix would be to put new tyres on, and then he said it would come back as tyres wear down.

He has been working with Jaguars all his life, and said he gets asked this all the time. He seems to think its the direction Jaguar have gone with their suspension -=instead of luxury you feel every bump in the road

Find it all unbelievable personally as the car was as smooth as anything when I bought it 12 months ago !

 

Been trawling Jag sites and questions have been raised regarding the CATS active dampers. There are accelerometers that firm up the suspension when cornering, braking and accelerating via a solenoid. Other than slow speed and doing one of the above, the solenoid on the strut should be in soft mode when moving. Default is firm and will change to soft once it receives a voltage signal. Maybe the choppy ride is because the damper isn't receiving signal and remains in firm mode?

[Telecaster1]

I had the same thing after picking up my used XF 2.0D 2016 from Grange Barnet.

It felt as if there was a flat spot on one of the tyres.

Anyway I took the car to my local tyre dealer for balancing. The balance was out slightly on all four tyres but the main culprit was that the front O/S tyre was abnormally worn on the inside edge. On further investigation a split was starting to appear within the tread pattern.

I was not about to buy a tyre for a car I had just picked up so a phone call to Jaguar was made and they fitted two new front tyres, balancing and tracking was also done.

The ride is perfect now 

[abiltcliffe]

I've got exactly the same thing on my 2012 xfs - Jag engineers denied anything wrong with it but its as plain as day its not right.  I've been waiting for about 18 months for it to materialise into an obvious fault so I can get it sorted.  My feeling is its a bush or ball joint that isnt being picked up as faulty by anyone.

 

I've had loads of new tyres over the 3.5 years of owning so I dont think they are always the cause of this issue.

[Porty]

Hi, new to the club, I’ve got a 2010 3.0D and it has a slight vibration from around 60 to 75, garage has changed lots of front end parts and I’ve just fitted two new tyres but the vibration is still there. Reading the posts above this seems to be a comment fault, I’ve read this could be drive train related, not sure if there is any truth in this.

[TR4SPY]

@abiltcliffe, what was the outcome after all? I have an XF-S X250 2009 and I have exactly same issue now and it makes me mad! Like you I decided to leave it for a while and wait until it get bad so finally could tell what is the issue, yet that does not happened.

So far I have been at Grange Barnet where they did full car check and replaced anything that needed to be replaced (it was in 2022), then in 2023 replaced front wishbones. 2023/2024 replaced all tyres, alloys (twice - 1 set of 18's with winter tyres just for a try, then new 20's with summer Michelin Pilot Sport 5 brand new tyres). Wheel balance done each time on Elite Hunter machine. Last month I had replaced front passenger wheel hub as it was marked by Independent as faulty. Car has 135k miles on the clock. Been to Jaguar Grange, two Independent Specs, two ATS's - none of which see an issue with suspension. Recently did allignment check and the rear cambers are slightly out of the limit (negative values). Yet apparently there is no setting on them and if those are out of limit, it points towards suspension - which once again, nobody see an issue with! It literally drive me nuts as the car is wobbly/bouncy. It is not related to speed but the road quality. Even at slow speeds, when there is uneven road I can feel it all bumpy. On motorway if I drive with constant speed, the vibration can develop from time to time. All the mechanics give me "maybe" guesses and all are rather expensive - propshaft, driveshaft, differential, any other wheel hub. But no one can pin point where the issue really is. I am tired of replacing part by part and seeing no results.

[Bigvic]

Anybody tried swapping the front wheels to the back?

maybe (😃), you’ve got an alloy out of round

[TR4SPY]

On 4/29/2024 at 9:13 PM, Bigvic said:

Anybody tried swapping the front wheels to the back?

maybe (😃), you’ve got an alloy out of round

Like I have mentioned, I tried three different sets of alloys and three different sets of tyres. Each set was balanced, tyres were also checked. One set of alloys was bent but replacing it with a perfectly round set did not change the drive feel. I had Dunlop's, Pirelli's and now Michelin's. Every single time there is no difference and car is still bumpy and wobbly. My bet is on the shocks yet the Specialists (I visited two plus two/three other garages), claim everything is OK with suspension. I am tired of replacing part by part with no improvement. alloys and tyres were tested on a different Jag XF and there was no issue, hence I am still convinced it is something with the suspension.

[Big John]

On 4/29/2024 at 2:48 PM, TR4SPY said:

It is not related to speed but the road quality.

Hi Karol

Only suggestion I can make is have you thought it might just be due to having 20" wheels? I know you have tried 18" but those were with winter tyres. I have 19" wheels on my 2013 Sportbrake and recently went to Northern Ireland in it, with brand new Bridgestone Turanza 6 all seasons all round. I had to stop twice and check I didn't have a puncture as the road surface locally was clearly different to those in NW England and I felt I could feel every imperfection in the road 😞

I am sure the narrower side-walls on 20" wheels would only have exacerbated the issue. Is there anyway you could try a set of 18" wheels with decent summer tyres?

Also could you clarify the problem? Feeling bumps: do you mean through the body - Front / back / steering?  Any accomanying noises? Also I would understand wobble as a clear side to side shake, is that what you mean? Can you reliably repeat the issue by repeating a journey over a section of road at the same speed?

Good Luck

John

 

[TR4SPY]

Hi John,

I bought it already on 20's and everything was fine for two years. As swapping alloys and tyres gave me little to none difference in the ride quality I crossed those two things out of the list, but I will try to get some summer tyres for the 18's or to get someone with 19's and put them in and report back here.

All the issues started around 125k miles mark and in that time I remember only thing being reported by the mechanics were front forward lower wishbones so called banana arms which apparently were never replaced by the previous owner. They have not seen any issues with upper wishbones, however now I am thinking about it, I feel like that might be my issue.

To clarify:
Some time ago I started hearing all the plastic trims inside of the cabin rattling more often. I also observed wobble of the passenger seat from time to time.
At some point while commuting to work on M25, whole body was vibrating (when driving on cruise control). That was happening on a daily basis, different parts of the motorway, different speeds as long as it was on constant speed. Remedy was to switch lanes and slow down a bit then speed up and the vibration was gone. It felt for a few seconds like the back of the car is about to blow up, literally 😄 Like a massive subwoofer/washing machine about to explode. That issue lasted for a few months (meanwhile nobody could diagnose it properly) so driving like a lunatic was a temp workaround.
Steering wheel is slightly vibrating while on motorway, the faster I go, the more noticeable are the vibrations.
Any imperfection in the road or even a small bump feels bumpy - ride is rough. Can feel it through steering wheel, can hear it as the passenger seat wobble and all the plastic trims rattle.
Literally feels like car is about to fall to pieces. Please note - there is no issue when driving on a smooth surface, car act normal.
I wouldn't say the whole car is wandering. I have a feeling that once I go through small bump, the back of the car keeps vibrating for few seconds then settle... or at least that's the feeling I get. Whatever that is, has to be related to the rear of the car. There are no cracks or leaks on the shocks, though I do believe those were never replaced as most of the suspension.

Now, after few months going back and forth with no proper fix, the vibration of whole body while on cruise control seem to be mostly gone by itself (does not happen that often), but the rest of the symptoms remain (steering wheel vibrate (the quicker I go, the more noticeable), bumpy ride, feeling every single road imperfection, plastic trim rattle, passenger seat wobble, back of the car feels more bumpy then front) and ride quality is far from what it was when I bought it.

One mechanic thought it is a front passenger wheel hub but that did not solved it.  Another blamed tyres and/or alloys, same result. Now another one is suspecting differential or any of the remaining wheel hubs. While I am personally pointing towards 1. Shocks 2. CV Joints 3. Upper wishbones hence I am preparing my wallet to send the car to Jag Spec in Doncaster and ask them to check it all while get the gearbox service, differential service and type B service done.
Previous owner was replacing parts when the main dealer told him to. Many parts are sitting there since car came out from factory.

Funny enough, the car passed the MOT with no advisories, I already went to few mechanics and nobody see an issue even though it came out poorly on wheel alignment (I am attaching copy of last one that I did).

I would like to mantain it and keep it for as long as possible, yet that one is baffling me big time.

[Big John]

.... OK so not just the 20" wheels then 🙂

That sounds like a nightmare. The shaking reminds me of my first car: A Skoda S100 rear engined beast with swing axle rear suspension that tried killing me on several occasions! One of which was due to a worn steering box  where there was enough play to allow the front wheels to vibrate from side to side which did feel like the car was shaking itself to pieces. My problem is that yours passed the MOT which should have ruled out any loose parts. Have you had somebody drive behind you to check if there is any crabbing?

[TR4SPY]

40 minutes ago, Big John said:

.... OK so not just the 20" wheels then 🙂

That sounds like a nightmare. The shaking reminds me of my first car: A Skoda S100 rear engined beast with swing axle rear suspension that tried killing me on several occasions! One of which was due to a worn steering box  where there was enough play to allow the front wheels to vibrate from side to side which did feel like the car was shaking itself to pieces. My problem is that yours passed the MOT which should have ruled out any loose parts. Have you had somebody drive behind you to check if there is any crabbing?

I can relate. Used to have Seat Ibiza FL2 1.9 SDI 2000, which at some point gave up and the driver side wishbone just turned into dust while driving, luckily at low speed. At least it was a straight forward - no symptoms then one day, whole car just collapsed on one side. Skoda S100 seems like a lovely car to drive, could not imagine it being a beast 😄 What engine was it?
The Jag even though I have that issue for a while, don't want to give up (which is a possitive, I guess!)

Yes, multiple times and no crabbing spotted. It is more vertical than horizontal. As if the gas in the shocks is gone or if there was a play in the wishbone bushings. Yet all mechanics claim suspension is in good condition. It has to be something clearly not visible at the first glance. As both rear cambers are out of alignment, one mechanic is pointing towards differential or propshaft. Those might be expensive to repair, hence I want to be sure as much as possible before spending even more money.

...and yes, it was scary at first when the whole body started vibrating on the motorway (rear wheels felt like going up and down constantly even though road was smooth) and it felt like sitting in a helicopter with a spinning washing machine at the back. But nobody found an issue, I could not figure it out either so just kept diagnosing it and still commuting to work, I am still alive so... I am just worried about the stress on all the components and trying to figure out what the heck is happening here.

[Big John]

First time I have heard anyone describe a Skoda S100 as lovely to drive 🙂

It was 988cc with a mighty 42bhp! Incredibly tail happy as the rear swing arms simply "tuck under" when cornering, HOWEVER you could fix it with a set of spanners.

From  your description I would be focusing on prop shaft and particulalry the UJs. Everything else is fixed, even if through rubber bushes, so should not be able to move without it being detectable at rest with a pry bar. If the Propshaft joints have even a little play they could vibrate and resonate like the tacoma narrows bridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_(1940)) which sounds like what you are experiencing to me. Also that vibration could well have "bent" something to account for your suspension settings.

Good luck

John

[TR4SPY]

I was born in Poland hence S100 bring back many memories as it is somehow similar to what I used to see on the road on a daily basis. Although I never owned one, my father used to drive Fiat 125p and later on FSO Polonez Caro which was hell of a clunker.

The comparison to the Tacoma narrows bridge seems to be spot on to what I am experiencing! There is a high chance you are right with the propshaft. I will have it checked too and will post the outcome in case anyone else had something similar in the future. Hopefully it will not end up on a whole propshaft replacement...

[Big John]

I have been thinking about it and still think the problem is a jolt to a rotating part is setting off a resonance. But that requires sufficient freedom of movement to allow the parts to physically move so if it were the propshaft there should be play in the bearings / their mountings or the rubber / Universal joints themselves. Likewise in the driveshafts but the driveshafts do hve a built in abilty to move vertically at the wheel so possible more likely???

Do let us know how you get on.

Good Luck.