Smoke from exhaust on start up. S type R

[Akaz]

Hello everyone 

Some info before i start, 2005 s type R 4.2 supercharged. Woth around 250,000 km  

at start up my car blows smoke from the exhaust, sometimes it barely smokes and sometimes it smokes so bad i cant see behind me in the rear view mirror for a few minutes untill it stops smoking. Usually its worse when the weather is cold out... looks & smells like burnt Oil smoke,  and i never noticed any coolant loss 

so i tore down the cylinder heads and replaced the all valve seat seals, 🤕all gaskets and timing components 

The old seals were obviously worn, i did not see any other obvious problems.

its been about 250km of driving since I performed the job, and to my delight, there is still smoke on start up. Sometimes doesn’t smoke and sometimes smokes very bad. 

Compression is good in all cylinders, i wouldnt of cared so much if it wasnt a jag, but im determined to keep this car on the road, and im tortured by the fact that the problem isnt solved after all that work

 

 

[Old Peter]

H Akaj,

I am no mechanical expert, but I see that you have done quite a lot to correct it.

If you google  Car Treatments.com  you will find a few reasons why, some of which you might have missed.

Good Luck,

Regards,

Peter.

[JOE-DOT-COM]

hi

usually valve stem seals, did you use genuine jaguar ones, some after market ones are really poor quality

could also be the crankcase pcv, it controls the pressure in the crankcase, they stick as they get old and cause the pressure to rise in the engine case and cause Oil to be pushed past the piston ring and smoke

its on the left side of the engine and is like a round disc

this is a common problem on higher miles cars

cheers

Joe

 

[Akaz]

Yes genuine jaguar valve seals. 

And i checked out the pcv valve and it seems to be functioning correctly

[JOE-DOT-COM]

hi

I'd still try replacing the pcv

only other thing is worn piston rings, piston ring end gaps too big

though if its doing it only on first start up, there must be something on the heads, because like when valve stem seals fail, the Oil weep through when it stands, so if yours smoke on start up, there must be something still passing from the heads

cheers

Joe

 

[Akaz]

Im thinking it may be coolant that’s burning,

ever heard of problems in the upper intake manifold leaking inside? 

[Old Peter]

Hi Aj,

Coolant is one of the facts that I saw when I googled the issue.   

Joe has given you some good information, as always!

Regards,

Peter.

[JOE-DOT-COM]

hi

upper intake manifolds cant leak into engine

intercoolers can, which could be proved by plugging off the two coolant pipes flow and return to the intercoolers from the radiator

car will still run fine, but inlet temp would be higher, but would prove a point, or you could just pressure test each intercooler

disconnect the two pipes to each intercooler, plug one pipe and put compressed air on each one, 1.2 bar should do it, as its the same as the pressure relief on the expansion tank, isolate the air, pressure should stay constant and not drop, if it drops then intercooler has failed, easy fix

if its coolant though it should be using water, by the sound of it lots, if its Oil burning will use Oil,

blue smoke Oil and white smoke water

cheers

Joe

[Akaz]

If the intercooler/upper intake manifold is leaking, then what would be the fix? Besides buying a new one? 

If its not coolant burning or Oil, only other thing im thinking is it could be sticking fuel injectors

p.s coolant level and Oil level will take some more driving to monitor for a leak, as i just put the engine back together and topped off all fluids 

[JOE-DOT-COM]

hi

wont be injectors, would be black smoke, and fuel would end up in the engine Oil, would pass piston rings when engine off

like I said, water would give white smoke and Oil would give blue smoke

if its smoking bad would expect you notice useage quite soon

thanks

Joe

[Akaz]

Thanks Joe ..

I was thinking the same thing, but the smokeing issue is not consistent at all. I Might not have suspected injectors if it was white smoke and the car was a diesel, but it runs on gasoline

sometimes ill go a day or 2 and it wont smoke the slightest puff, sometimes it smokes for a couple seconds, sometimes it will smoke a little bit after driving and being parked for a few minutes to fill fuel, sometimes it will smoke a ton after a  drive, sometimes nothing after drive or being parked for a day or 2, sometimes it will smoke a ton after a short drive or long drive..

the other day it smoked at start up for a couple minutes, when the smoke cleard i shut it off and immediately turn it back on, then it smoke again for a couple minutes then i shut it off when the smoke cleard and immediately turned it back on again , and it smoke again for a couple minutes.. i did this like 3 or 4 times and the same amount of smoke came out again and again.

weather doesnt seem to be a factor anymore, driving hard/driving easy doesnt seem to be a factor, short drives/long drives doesnt seem to be a factor, letting the car sit for 5 mins or leaving to sit for a day or two doesnt seem be factor... its pretty much completly random, when the thing wants to smoke it smokes... Nothing i do seems to reproduce the issue. 

im dumbfounded

[isaac91b]

hello akaz. 

Did you ever find a fix to this? I'm trying to figure out mine but I don't want to go right to tearing the heads off. Thank you 

[Old Peter]

Hi Isaac and welcome to the club.

I have found that using premium fuel and the odd additive can keep the fuel system clean.

Worth Trying,

Peter.

[Billyeck]

On 5/28/2019 at 9:17 AM, Akaz said:

Thanks Joe ..

I was thinking the same thing, but the smokeing issue is not consistent at all. I Might not have suspected injectors if it was white smoke and the car was a diesel, but it runs on gasoline

sometimes ill go a day or 2 and it wont smoke the slightest puff, sometimes it smokes for a couple seconds, sometimes it will smoke a little bit after driving and being parked for a few minutes to fill fuel, sometimes it will smoke a ton after a  drive, sometimes nothing after drive or being parked for a day or 2, sometimes it will smoke a ton after a short drive or long drive..

the other day it smoked at start up for a couple minutes, when the smoke cleard i shut it off and immediately turn it back on, then it smoke again for a couple minutes then i shut it off when the smoke cleard and immediately turned it back on again , and it smoke again for a couple minutes.. i did this like 3 or 4 times and the same amount of smoke came out again and again.

weather doesnt seem to be a factor anymore, driving hard/driving easy doesnt seem to be a factor, short drives/long drives doesnt seem to be a factor, letting the car sit for 5 mins or leaving to sit for a day or two doesnt seem be factor... its pretty much completly random, when the thing wants to smoke it smokes... Nothing i do seems to reproduce the issue. 

im dumbfounded

Mine is the exact same , totally random when the blue smoke happens, some days nothing on cold start then a a few days later blue smoke on cold start, some times a lot some times a bit and then sometimes nothing at all , 

did you get to the bottom of the problem?

kind regards 

Billy 

[Terrance]

I would take Joe Dot Com's advice, which follows my experience with this type of problem. I once had heads rebuilt by professionals and they had installed poor quality valve guides. Blue smoke at start up. I would suggest that either the valve guides or the turbo seals, assuming the turbo is Oil cooled of course. As the heads were refurbished, my guess would be the turbo. Makes sense after 250,000 kms on the odometer. The turbo can be refurbished at reasonable cost.

Monitor your coolant and engine Oil levels. If there is a coolant leak into the engine, the Oil level will rise and the coolant level will drop. The oil will become milky brown and foam will form on the underside of the oil fill cap.

If the coolant level drops only, the smoke is white and there are no cooling system leaks. The coolant has to go somewhere. I would suspect a leak into the intake or turbo (if the turbo is cooled by coolant rather than oil).

If the smoke is blue and you have no visible oil leaks, the coolant level should remain stable and the oil level will decline. Problem would be the rings and/or the valve guides. If the turbo is oil cooled, the problem could be the turbo itself or as well. 

Best of luck resolving your problem.

PS: When checking for engine oil leaks, don't forget the rear engine seal. 

[eric medina]

I have a xkr 2008 with 55 th miles running smooth but i still see blue smoke when staring l change pcv valve and stop smoking for a few days the change the coolant sensor and stop for a few day now smoke  no that bad and after a minute smoke vanished and i wonder if some Oil accumulated somewhere that still smoking  the car burns some Oil and stop acceleratio is good  idle good any help will be appreciated