S Type 2.7 auto (2007) Diesel hard to start from cold

[keithstype27]

My 2007 2.7 diesel S Type SE is getting harder to start when cold.

It cranks over very well (new battery a few months ago) but just takes a while to fire into life.

I have no warning lights on the dash. The glow plug dash light goes out as it should do and all else seems ok.

The car runs very well and has also had both EGR valves replaced a few months ago.

I have tried a bottle of Forte Diesel Specialist Injector Cleans (400ml) in a full tank of diesel but the tank is now in need of a refill but there has been no improvement.

Has anyone had similar problems and if so how did you cure it please?

Keith

 

[JOE-DOT-COM]

hi

usually with diesels when they get hard to start its glow plugs

they fail and its not a issue till winter comes and it gets colder

worth getting the glow plugs checked, may have a couple gone

cheers

Joe

[keithstype27]

Hi Joe, Thank you for your reply and advice.

I had assumed that were it glow plugs, there would be a change with the glow plug light on the dashboard.

Many thanks

 

Keith

[JOE-DOT-COM]

hi

the glow plug light comes on whether the glow plugs work or not, so worth checking

[keithstype27]

Thanks Joe 🙂

[keithstype27]

UPDATE

 

Problem solved - at a cost of £27.95p

I replaced the fuel filter with a FRAM fuel filter. It took approximately 15 minutes and did not require any priming of the new filter in any way. It took a while to start after the change but once started it has been fine.

The existing fuel filter had been fitted in Nov 2018 (one year ago) and had done a total of 4,300 miles. However, it was a 'no name' fuel filter that came together with a service kit.

Before the fuel filter change my S Type 2.7 MPG had dropped from 34.4 to 33.7 in a couple of weeks - it has now returned to 34.4 mpg in a couple of days.

 

 

[Ross Hall]

Hi Keith,

 

are you saying that changing the fuel filter cured the cold start problems ?

I have the same engine which is hesitant to start and then runs rough for a minute or two until moving off.

However, this only happens when the weather turns cold and first thing in the morning.

Many thanks,

 

Ross

[keithstype27]

Hi Ross, Initially yes. I read that poor fuel filters can clog up quickly and I checked back on my records for my car and found that I had bought a 'no name' (unknown source and make) fuel filter that came with a service kit bought from eBay. Although it had only been on the car for less than one year and had done just 4k miles, I replaced it with a FRAM filter and the car started much quicker. Since then the car seems to start quicker that it did but still take rather longer to start than it should.

[Old Peter]

Hi Keith,

It is possible that the battery needs more regular charging, and also possible the the fuel system needs a cleaning additive.

I have an s type with the same engine and the same year and also live in the West Midlands.  I use premium fuel plus  an additive [Millers Eco + diesel]  both of which seem to be doing a good job.

Regards,

Peter.

[keithstype27]

Hi Peter, thanks for the reply to my post. I had a new battery a few months ago and regularly use Millers Eco Plus but it is still hard to start, I now have an additional problem in that the electronic parking brake (EPB) cannot be applied - I've tried the usual reset (battery disconnect) and also by disconnecting the two multi plugs into the EPBCM (control Module) but to no avail. The handbrake will not apply (Code C1802) so I'm now working on that as well. I suspect a seized rear caliper.

I love my S Type 2.7 and it is certainly keeping me busy lately!!

 

Keith

[Mollbhan]

Hi all, just read the bit about checking glow plugs and thought I would add this warning. Couple of years back I had a Hyundai i30 which got hard to start in cold weather, suspecting faulty glow plugs I took it to my local garage to get them changed. After changing the plugs the engine rattled, you got it, the tip had snapped off one of the old plugs and was rattling about in the cylinder, resulting in a scrap engine.

Fortunately there are decent honest garages around and they accepted the mistake and fitted a replacement engine at no cost to me, I gather heater plug tips do occasionally snap off on removal so check properly before starting the engine again.

[keithstype27]

Thanks for the heads up Colin.

[Ross Hall]

I paid a few hundred to have the glow plugs checked but they could only test all  but one as it was seized and, as suggested, not a good idea to try to free it or it could ruin the engine. This expensive diagnostic didn't help at all and no glow plugs needed replacing either. However, after replacing the fuel filter with a FRAM, which only seemed to make a slight difference, it was suggested that I try turning on and of the glow plug position one on the ignition for about 15 seconds for three or four times as sometimes apparently older plugs can take longer to heat up. This did seem to help but, as I said, the problem disappears once Spring arrives. So it does look like Jaguar have a major problem with ineffective glow plugs, all injectors prove OK on testing. It would be great to hear any updates from the manufacturer on this inherent problem as I will be upgrading to an XE saloon one day. Cheers everyone !

[keithstype27]

Hi Ross, Thanks for the post. Very interesting content and food for thought.

I still have the starting problem with my 2007 2.7  albeit not as bad as before. In warmer weather it still takes longer than it used to but in the cold weather it is far worse.

I may try to get the glow plugs tested in situ and go from there.

 

Take care

 

Keith

[keithstype27]

As a follow on from my original post - my starting problem has now become much worse. After a period of a day or two, my 2.7diesel S Type (2007) takes ages to start. It cranks readily and with gusto but doesn't catch for approximately 8 seconds. 8 seconds feels like ages when it is continually cranking over. (No problem re starting when engine is warm)

Once it has finally started it runs fine with no lumps or lack of power. As it is now June 2020 and the air temperature is warm,  it's unlikely to have anything to do with glow plugs.

It seems to be more of a fuel supply problem.

 

Oh well, here we go again.....

[NeBC]

Had this problem with a 2005 Laguna. Turned out to be air in the fuel system from a small crack in a pipe. The 1.9dCi had a "fuel priming bulb" under the bonnet, couple of squeezes on that and it started on the button but had to be done every time the car had been sat for around 8 or more hours. A £3 repair.

Can you have someone under the bonnet with a torch as it's cranking to see if there is a diesel mist?

[keithstype27]

Cheers Neil, I'll look into that .

 

[keithstype27]

Well, I'm back again....and with the same problem...my 2,7 S Type takes ages to start. It cranks over very well but several seconds before it starts.

(No problem starting when the engine is warm)

The average temperatures here in the UK at the moment are around 23C so I think it's highly unlikely to be glow plug related.

It is NOT the battery - I've just been on a long run (200 miles) and car runs perfectly. Fuel consumption is average at around 34mpg.

Over the last couple of years the starting issue has been good and bad...sometimes it seems to start on second turn of key and other times it takes 3 or 4 turns. If I just turn the key and hold it on, it cranks for ages before it starts. I have no smell of diesel - no visible leaks and no reduction in performance. I have NO DTC (fault codes) on my icarsoft diagnostic reader.

I have read the swirl flaps (D Port Deactivation valves) can cause poor starting but it seems that this problem is always accompanied by restricted performance light or a noticeable increase in fuel consumption....or both.

It feels more like a fuel starvation problem than anything else. Is there any way diesel fuel could drain back if the car has been standing for a day or more? 

[keithstype27]

Having cleaned the MAP sensor again (quite dirty) and cleaned both MAF sensors (both seemed ok) the starting problem has not improved. This car has had new EGR valves a couple of years ago (I only do 5k a year) and since then it has been run with a generous portion of Millers Diesel Power Ecomax poured into each tank of diesel fuel. The starting problem has been hit and miss for almost 3 years now.

I have today checked the D Port Deactivation valves and found that the left valve (as you face the engine from outside the car) does not hold suction. I have now ordered a diaphragm replacement kit and will update again when it has been fitted. Fingers crossed.

[keithstype27]

UPDATE re Inlet Port Deactivation valve (replacement kit). Well,  The rubber diaphragm on the drivers side (UK) deactivation port had a small split and so was ineffective. I replaced the diaphragm (with stem, spring and cap) and after reassembling and charging the battery I can report that the poor starting issue IS STILL THERE. My S Type 2.7 runs very well and seems a little smoother but still takes 3 attempts or more to start.

The search for the answer continues.

[keithstype27]

After yet another new fuel filter (Bosch this time) my 2.7 diesel still takes three or four cranks to start.

I officially give up now.

 

[keithstype27]

Well, I didn't give up....I replaced the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail at the back of the engine. It is awkward to access due to limited space for both hands. However, I managed to replace it and....it's far worse than it was before.

Let me first say that the part number of the removed sensor is 55PP04-02 and the replacement is 55PP04-01.

My icarsoft  i930 code reader Live Data has given me the following readings.

Prior to the change of sensor my fuel rail pressure (with engine cold, not running but with ignition on) the rail pressure was reading 210 KPa. Sometimes it would read 430KPa and other times it would read 0KPa that occasionally flashed up to 40KPa as I watched it. This is why I decided to change the sensor as I suspected this may be the cause of the erratic starting crank times.

 

With the new sensor fitted the non running cold engine sensor reading are madly fluctuating around 18000KPa...................When I start it the pressure stay around the same but the engine cuts out and the icarsoft i930 displays Fault codes re fuel pressure being out of range.

 

It seems that the sensor number must be exact in order for it to work correctly.

I have messaged a couple of eBay sensor sellers to ask for confirmation on the importance of the part number and will update once I know.

(It is virtually impossible to read the part number when the sensor is on the car)