Late 2009 XF 3.0D S Portfolio engine rattle / tick etc

[Elliott71]

Hi, first post as a new owner. This has been discussed many times but my engine is pretty noisy and does not sound as refined as I thought it would coming from a 530d E60...

I have a flutter / chatter from cold and some warm starts and a tick like a tappet when up to operating temp. Doesnt tick when cold. Sounds like pinking when accelerating too. FSH and fresh correct Oil. 96k with new inlet manifold and cambelt. 

Here's a sound clip from a fairly warm start (in the dark sorry) so if anyone could put my mind at rest or suggest what it could be etc that would be a starting point for me. I do really like the Jag but it's so different to other big diesels I have driven in terms of noise and refinement. Very quite in the cabin though must admit. 

 

[Jon Hyde]

Hi Elliott,

I have to say that yours sounds pretty much the same as my 2011 XF-S 3.0D Portfolio. Maybe slightly noisier, but obviously hard to tell the volume from the video. As you point out though, they're very quiet on the inside.

I don't get any odd noises when accelerating - maybe some other members will have suggestions for what might cause that.

Good luck,
Jon (also (originally) from Essex!)

[Old Peter]

Hi Elliot, and welcome to the club.

I am somewhat surprised that your are finding your car somewhat noisy on startup.  I am wondering it there is some noise padding missing under the  bonnet.

The engine on my is type [2.7 diesel] is the one from which yours was developed and is remarkable quiet, particularly inside the cabin.

I use premium fuel plus Millers Eco plus, which keeps my DPF and ERGs clean as I don't do many long runs.

Let us know if there are any changes in the noise department.

Regards, 

Peter,

P.S. My son, who has an X type 2.0 litre D has the noise control pad under the engine cover missing, sounds like a Massey Ferguson on startup! 

[Elliott71]

Thanks for the replies, I'm at work so can only reply when I can. I'm sure I'm just being over anxious with the noise issue but it does seem quite "tappety" on idle which does disappear when the revs are up. Maybe a leaking injector or an exhaust manifold leak. I will take it to an independent to have them take a look etc but would rather go armed if you know what I mean!

With regards to sound padding I'm not sure if the padding is under the bonnet, will check tonight. I do know that the undertray is missing but would that make that much of a difference to engine noise as surely it would deflect the noise up?

I will post another sound clip as that other one has a lot of wind noise etc. Cant help but compare it to the BMW 530d it has replaced, the engine on that just sounded more refined but maybe due to the straight 6 as opposed to the V6. Anyway I'm sure this issue will slowly drive me nuts...

I do love it though I must admit and it soaks the bumps up way way better than the 5 series plus this one has the big 20 inch wheels. Interior is a lovely place to be too. Touch screen is a bit fiddly but slowly getting used to it. Handles better too and obv much much quicker!

 

 

[Old Peter]

Hi Elliot,

The undertray does make some difference, as rather than deflect it is supposed to muffle the noise.

The first diesel i drove was a Fordson Tractor and it was in 1960 and the only thing to muffle the noise was earplugs, so the quietness of the Jaguar is wonderful!

Peter.

[Elliott71]

I've heard the 4 cylinder diesel Jaguars, really noisy! I expect they are fairly quite inside the cabin though?

Here's a couple of other quick vids of my car running, starting etc. The flutter type noise worries me a little as it sounds like Oil not getting to the top end quick enough or do they all do this? The tick when hot drives me nuts tbh, just hoping its characteristic and not something else. 

 

[Old Peter]

Hi Elliot, 

I noted that tick.  Would have annoyed me too.

I might be worth getting a good mechanic with a good diagnostic tool to see what that would tell you.  

A diagnostic test from a main dealer would cost £174 --  outrageous  --  but a good garage should charge about £40.

I have not come across the 2 litre Ingenium engine yet so I cannot give you an opinion.

Regards,

Peter.

[Jon Hyde]

A good friend (neighbour of mine) drove mine after I had it a few months. Guess what! Two weeks later, he got one! Unfortunately a 2.0D 4x4, but hey! It's another XF in the street!

J

[Jon Hyde]

And Elliott...

Your wheels are in much better nick than mine, D'oh!

J

[Jon Hyde]

Gonna have to go outside and record my engine now...

 

[Jon Hyde]

OK, a bit of a mission to get my iPhone to talk to my PC, but this is what mine sounds like from a cold start!

Enjoy and be kind !

J!

[Elliott71]

17 hours ago, Jon Hyde said:

OK, a bit of a mission to get my iPhone to talk to my PC, but this is what mine sounds like from a cold start!

Enjoy and be kind !

J!

Cat2.mov

Hi Jon 

Appreciate you taking the time to do that etc, after hearing yours its put my mind at rest a little but I do think mine is a tad more rattly. Still have to see if theres a sound pad under the bonnet plus the undertray is missing so I suppose that would add to the noise. 

Like the colour you have, mines a little different, has a black grill insert plus the S badges are different? Theres one on the front grill too. I like the chrome grill tbh, prefer it to the black. 

Thanks, E. 

[Jon Hyde]

Hi Elliott,

I think your 'S' badges & grille have been upgraded along the way! I really like them, but my XF is so original, maybe it would be a shame to swap them, might change my mind though.

Good luck with the noise issue!

Cheers,
J

[Jaxone]

Hi Ellliot , and hi Forum 🙂

Stumbled upon your video on youtube and found you on this forum afterwards....
My XFS 3.0D Portfolio with 120.000km on the clocks has developed the same sound ... or maybe is me who is to picky about my cars.

I have the car for over 1 year now and I never noticed the sound until a few days ago when I started hearing a "tapping" kind of sound ... maybe is only in my brains and ears but sounds like yours.
After coming from work I parked the car in the garage and let it stay for 2 hours. Then went and started it up , open the bonnet and rev it to 2000-2500 RPM. I noticed the engine shaking and it kept shaking until the engine got warmed up ... then it did not shake anymore.
Does your shake on "semi warm" conditions or after letting it sit for 1-2h ?

I can also hear the "tapping" noise with the engine revved up.

In my opinion , and after listening to the engine sound , it sounds like one of this things :
- Worn injector , or worn injector seal , as it gets better after getting warm.
- Cracked Exhaust manifold (Can only check this if I take out the EGR valves and not willing to do this as for now).
- Worn valve lifter

I have recorded a video , yet to upload it to youtube...
I hate noises in the car ..

Until I upload the video maybe you can check the "shaking" part and let's share experiences and possible solutions .. or maybe go to a head shrink together 🙂

 

[Jaxone]

Finally my brain woke up and told me I can upload the video directly from the phone. So I did 🙂. You can also hear the noise when I keep the engine up in revs.

 

 

[Elliott71]

Hi, yes yours sounds very similar to mine although mine seems to have a more pronounced "tick" but only when warm, when cold the tick isn't present. If I rev it hard say 3.5k and feather off the accelerator the tick isn't there for a few seconds...

With regards to the shaking, mine doesnt do that. I'm not sure what that could be unless one of the injectors is misbehaving when cold but that may throw a code. Do you have a code reader? You can buy an ELM327 reader off eBay for a few £, an app will read the codes on your phone via bluetooth, its pretty good and will at least arm you with some info on what's going on. 

Tbh I havent had the time to take my car anywhere for a diagnosis on the ticking noise plus I'd rather take it to somewhere recommended etc, tired of being ripped off and spending money for nothing, did that in bucket loads with my old 530d, in hindsight most of the work i had done it didnt need and it cost me a fortune. 

I think the noises we are hearing are like you say, injector related or maybe an exhaust manifold leak which funnily enough my old 68 Cadillac (i know, it was good for making money on the side trust me) had and sounded almost identical. 

I've since been using millers diesel additive and some injector cleaner (not together) not sure if this has made a difference or not but maybe to early to tell. 

My car also doesnt have the engine undertray, looks like it has sheared off at some point, I'm looking to replace it to see if this makes a slight difference if any. Worth a shot and it should be in place after all. 

Worn camshaft? Maybe but I've not heard of any problems online but that's not a definitive answer. 

When I get the chance to take it somewhere for proper diagnosis I will definitely post an update as it drives me mental, I'm hoping it's just an injector noise and nothing any more sinister! 

Other jobs to sort, rear wheel bearing moan and paint detailing, swirl mark's are awful under forecourt lights!

Fingers crossed on an easy fix for the noise etc, love the car but not the noise!!

[Jaxone]

I have SDD , Launch , ELM... you name it 🙂 No error codes but the most stupid is that none of them will measure injector flow rate.

Drove it now for 30km and when I came back I let it idle in the garage for a bit and then tried to see where the engine shakes mostly and it is at exactly 1800rpm.
There I can feel it the most, and I can feel the engine shaking in the steering wheel or if I hold my hand on the car , for ex. on A pillar.

I also tried to hold Park Brake by holding the button up , put it in D and rev it slowly slowly up to 1200 rpm. When under load I can clearly hear a knock / bang like sound coming either from engine or .. or .. maybe from torque converter... hard to say.

I have also tried injector cleaner , tappet additive , no change. I will probably pull the injectors next week and change the seals , I can see number one on the left bank is a bit wet around ..no puddle but I can see moisture.

Most irritating is that I can hear the "knock" or tapping sound while I drive and because the damn Falken winter tires are noisy and tapping on the road also , I can not deduce where the sound comes from exactly. Planing to mount the GoPro in the engine bay and record while driving.

 

[Gaby]

I have the same problem with my jaguar xf 2.7 2008 and I've discovered the problem on cylinder 6 conrod bearing was gone.