Looking for some advice.

[typhoon1944]

Good afternoon all,

I am a new member here and I am hoping I can avail of other members' expertise.  I do not own a Jaguar yet but I have my eye on one of three potentials.  All are XF 3.0d V6 S models.  They are all some distance away from me on the west coast of Scotland, I am on the northeast coast so I am relying on photographs only at the moment but the bodywork and interior on all 3 appear to be in very good condition.  The first is a pre-facelifted 2010 MY Premium Luxury with around 57000 miles.   It does not appear to have had any MOT failures but there is an advisory to say that the rear sub-frame is showing signs of corrosion and in the photos there appears to be a milky discolouration around the outer edge of the windscreen (possible delamination?  No confirmation from dealer).  The second vehicle is a pre-facelifted 2009 MY Portfolio with around 92000 miles.  It's had one MOT failure due to a headlight aim being too low and in the most recent MOT there is an advisory regarding damage to the O/S windscreen which isn't impeding the drivers view.  Although it is the oldest vehicle this is the one that interests me most as it has the upgraded Bowers & Wilkins audio system (which is what brought me to the website in the first place as I wanted to see if it was worth it over the standard system).  The only real concerns I have are that, looking at the photos, the front seats don't appear to have as much lumbar support as the other 2 vehicles but I'm unsure whether that may be part of the Portfolio specification?  The final vehicle is a facelifted 2011 MY Premium Luxury with around 124000 miles.  Again it does not have any major flags in the online MOT checker.  One thing which is causing me major concerns is that none of them have any service history.  I have spoken to JLR who gave me a link to use their online service history checker and said all I needed was the VIN numbers.  Unfortunately the dealer has said he isn't happy to provide me with the VINs but has checked on the JLR website and has confirmed there is no service history at all for any of them.

To get to my point I guess I am posting to ask whether any of the information above would be a cause for concern to any current XF owners?  My current vehicle has a full service history but my colleague has said he has never asked to see, or been concerned about, service history on any of his previous vehicles, so am I being overly worried about the lack of history in this case?  I spend a lot of time in my car travelling to and from work so I like to listen to a lot of music.  Although I am wanting the upgraded B&W audio unit I prefer the look of the facelifted model but this has an additional 30000 & 70000 miles worth of use over the other 2 cars.  Assuming they have been well looked after (there's that concern over the lack of SH again) the higher mileages should not really be a factor and there has to be something said about a vehicle's reliability with mileage pushing or getting into triple figures.  From my previous investigations it would appear that if these were being sold in the US, 100000 miles would almost be seen as the car having just been run in.  However, the UK is a more temperate environment than the US and it appears they use less salt in their winter road clearing material so corrosion is less of an issue.  If any members were considering a purchase which would be the most attactive:

2010 Prem Lux:  Lower than average miles.  Corrosion to sub-frame, not significantly weakened.  Potential delamination/debonding of windscreen.  Higher price (£10000).  Standard audio system.  Mk1 front end.  Potentially more supportive Sports front seats.

2009 Portfolio:  Slightly lower than average miles.  No MOT concerns other than tyre wear and the damaged windscreen.  Reasonable price (£8000).  Premium audio system.  Mk1 front end.  No lumbar support(?).

2011 Prem Lux:  Slightly higher than average miles.  No MOT concerns other than tyre wear.  Good price (£7000).  Standard audio system.  Mk2 front end.  Sports seats(?).

 

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.   

[Tomato]

Always a risky business buying a car from distance, there are no shortage of XF's around, my key advice is don't rush.

The age of the cars like any other cars this age will have things that go wrong, and while all the extras on these cars are great, it is often costly to repair, do your homework on the gadgets.

If a dealer wont give you a VIN, would worry me a little, personally I would walk away.

These cars have great engines, but must be regularly serviced, if you have none on any of the cars that would make me a tad nervous. You may want to invest in a mechanical check before purchase.

The other thing which is a problem for most manufacturers of this era and a particular issue for the 3l diesel cars is the DPF, it causes a lot of issues particularly if the car has not been driven a lot or has done mainly short journeys.

Others may call out specifics on the particular cars as mine is a petrol variant.

 

[typhoon1944]

1 hour ago, Tomato said:

Always a risky business buying a car from distance, there are no shortage of XF's around, my key advice is don't rush.

The age of the cars like any other cars this age will have things that go wrong, and while all the extras on these cars are great, it is often costly to repair, do your homework on the gadgets.

If a dealer wont give you a VIN, would worry me a little, personally I would walk away.

These cars have great engines, but must be regularly serviced, if you have none on any of the cars that would make me a tad nervous. You may want to invest in a mechanical check before purchase.

The other thing which is a problem for most manufacturers of this era and a particular issue for the 3l diesel cars is the DPF, it causes a lot of issues particularly if the car has not been driven a lot or has done mainly short journeys.

Others may call out specifics on the particular cars as mine is a petrol variant.

 

Thanks for the advice @Tomato.  Unfortunately most of the cars up my way are into the £15k - £20k region.  The west coast ones were quite reasonably priced but I know what you mean it is very worrying to me.  It's almost a 6 hour round trip to go and see them as well.  However, since posting, I've found a 2013 facelifted Portfolio with a full(ish) history and 95500 miles for a similar price in Edinburgh which is only 90 miles or so away.  It's not the S variant but does have a Meridian Surround Sound audio setup.  I believe this is the uprated 825W system rather than the standard 350W Meridian setup but I'm not sure how that compares to the Bowers & Wilkins stereo.  Apparently the last 2 owners have driven mainly motorway miles returning around 52mpg (reasonable suggestion or a private seller overselling?) .  I'm getting around 23mpg on my current car.  I think I may take a trip down on Saturday to have a look at it but all my car buying experience has been from dealers and never anything as upmarket as a Jag.  I have a Pentland Jaguar branch in Dundee but have been told to find an independent JLR specialist as they provide a similar standard of service to a main dealer but prices are more reasonable.  Would any members in Scotland have any knowledge of a suitable garage?  A Google search hasn't produced any relevant results.  **Edit**  I've just rechecked the ad and, although the seller is the one who's told me it's the 825W system, he's advertised it as the 380W Jaguar setup.  Are there any members happy for me to PM the VIN number to check the original spec?  I'd check on Topix but it needs to be registered and I don't think it's worth it until I've actually bought an XF.

Edited May 18, 2022 by typhoon1944
Additional information.

[Tomato]

I have 825W system in my car, probably best car system I have had in a car in terms of sound. Not sure how it compares to the B&W though.

It was certainly better than the upgraded Meridian system I had in a newer XE, the range ability was much greater.

I do personally used a local main dealer, (not north of the border) they have been good, but wanted to keep with the main dealer for the history due to the rarer variant I own and they cover most things on extended warranty. Main issue with main dealer is they are often not the cheapest and customer service and knowledge often is nothing special.

Normally I use a specialist, I do for my other cars I own.

[typhoon1944]

13 hours ago, Tomato said:

I have 825W system in my car, probably best car system I have had in a car in terms of sound. Not sure how it compares to the B&W though.

It was certainly better than the upgraded Meridian system I had in a newer XE, the range ability was much greater.

I do personally used a local main dealer, (not north of the border) they have been good, but wanted to keep with the main dealer for the history due to the rarer variant I own and they cover most things on extended warranty. Main issue with main dealer is they are often not the cheapest and customer service and knowledge often is nothing special.

Normally I use a specialist, I do for my other cars I own.

I think I'm just going to forget about the 3 older models with no SH and concentrate on the one in Edinburgh.  The seller has been quite accommodating of my questions and has advised that he's getting around 52mpg on his run from Scotland to Hampshire.  Although most of my journey each day will be dual carriageway I won't get near that but as long as it's more than the 23mpg I'm currently getting I'll be happy.  He has said that the cam belt will need replacing at 104000 miles.  He asked them to do it at the last service but they weren't prepared to do it early.  What would I be looking at with regards to annual service costs (and am I right in thinking the 3.0d has a 12 month/16000 mile service interval)?  I'm around £250 - £300 for a major service on my current car but it has a 9000 mile service interval so depending on my mileage on any particular year I could be stung with 2 services in the space of 12 months.  So eliminating that could offset the higher Jaguar servicing costs.

[typhoon1944]

Good afternoon all,

Still not bought my XF yet.  Lost out on a couple due to dithering but it's a big decision so I'm not taking it lightly.  I think I still have the chance of the 62 plate Portfolio V6 D with around 96000 miles in Edinburgh or a 10 plate Prem Lux with 120000 miles but around half the price in Oban.  The owner of the 62 plate has said the ancillary belts were changed at the last service but the cambelt will need done at 104000.  Speaking to my local dealer this is incorporated into a major service at a cost of around £1300, however a Google search suggests it doesn't need to be changed until 144000 miles which, as I only do around 10000 miles a year, would at least delay the prospect of a major outlay for a while longer.  The owner of the 10 plate has advised that the garage she bought the car from told her they changed the cambelt before she took ownership but there's nothing in her records to prove this and, even if I got the VIN, it's too old to appear on Jaguar's OSH website.  However, she has said that she may consider getting the belt changed anyway if she had a guaranteed sale.  The front passenger window is also sticking but it's not clear whether it needs a new regulator or if carrying out the reset procedure would fix it. 

Could someone clarify when exactly I would need to start considering changing the cambelt? 

As a side note, there is also a 3.0 V6 petrol available but I don't think it's a contender as the fuel consumption is higher than the diesel variant and it's slower, not that that should be an issue.  However, a further Google search along the lines of "Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 petrol or diesel  throws up loads of forums saying the petrol is the one to go for as the servicing costs are cheaper, it's a more reliable engine and it is chain driven rather than belt, not to mention the stories of owners being told by dealerships that they wouldn't touch a high mileage XF, especially those over 100000 miles, with a barge pole.

As usual, any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Wrinkly]

1 hour ago, typhoon1944 said:

Good afternoon all,

Still not bought my XF yet.  Lost out on a couple due to dithering but it's a big decision so I'm not taking it lightly.  I think I still have the chance of the 62 plate Portfolio V6 D with around 96000 miles in Edinburgh or a 10 plate Prem Lux with 120000 miles but around half the price in Oban.  The owner of the 62 plate has said the ancillary belts were changed at the last service but the cambelt will need done at 104000.  Speaking to my local dealer this is incorporated into a major service at a cost of around £1300, however a Google search suggests it doesn't need to be changed until 144000 miles which, as I only do around 10000 miles a year, would at least delay the prospect of a major outlay for a while longer.  The owner of the 10 plate has advised that the garage she bought the car from told her they changed the cambelt before she took ownership but there's nothing in her records to prove this and, even if I got the VIN, it's too old to appear on Jaguar's OSH website.  However, she has said that she may consider getting the belt changed anyway if she had a guaranteed sale.  The front passenger window is also sticking but it's not clear whether it needs a new regulator or if carrying out the reset procedure would fix it. 

Could someone clarify when exactly I would need to start considering changing the cambelt? 

As a side note, there is also a 3.0 V6 petrol available but I don't think it's a contender as the fuel consumption is higher than the diesel variant and it's slower, not that that should be an issue.  However, a further Google search along the lines of "Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 petrol or diesel  throws up loads of forums saying the petrol is the one to go for as the servicing costs are cheaper, it's a more reliable engine and it is chain driven rather than belt, not to mention the stories of owners being told by dealerships that they wouldn't touch a high mileage XF, especially those over 100000 miles, with a barge pole.

As usual, any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

Nick

I believe that the decision you have to make is entirely a personal preference / decision. Taking your time to decide is always a double edged sword. You can miss the best you have seen in the interest of finding something better. I personally would not buy a high mileage Jaguar, the likes of what you are quoting of around or approaching 100K miles.  I also prefer petrol engines as although they might be a bit heavier on fuel, I do not believe that in the long run a diesel is any cheaper to run in the long run when you take into account servicing costs etc, etc. The fact of cam chain instead of a belt also gives me more comfort.

It does though boil down to "each to their own and personal choice." There are members here that will disagree on my point of view / preference and will thoroughly recommend a diesel engine. As I said, "each to their own"

Best of luck with finding the right car for you. 

Regards, John 

[typhoon1944]

Hi John, thank you for your input.  I appreciate it's a personal decision that I have to make which is why I'm not being hasty about it. I know from other forums that have come up in my previous searches that there are many owners of high mileage Jags and I assumed there would be members on here who might also have experience of owning such vehicles.  As I mentioned somewhere above, US drivers see cars with 100k+ as only just being run in and, whilst I concede it's a different market and climate, if a car has been well looked after and has managed to reach such a milestone there's no reason why it shouldn't continue to run well for many more miles.  I was hoping someone could  clear up the confusion over whether the cambelt should be changed at 104000 or 144000 miles but I should probably err on the side of caution and assume that it's the sooner of the two. 

Given the ages and prices of the vehicles I am asking about, I think it's reasonably clear that I'm not in Jaguar's "target market" but my current vehicle needs to be changed and I could either get something perfectly acceptable but run of the mill like a lowish mileage Vauxhall Astra/Ford Focus or look at something a bit special and accept that, in my price range, it's likely to have been round the block a few times. 

[Tomato]

Cambelt change will be a set mileage or number of years which is 10 from memory but others can correct me. Personally, unless evidence of a change, I would do for peace of mind.

All diesels of this era (all makes) suffer from DPF issues, regular maintenance and longer drives throughout its life will help, hence why histroy on the diesels important.

Petrol is a good option, if you want real fun, get a v8, they can manage 32-33mph on a long run 😀

[Wrinkly]

I thoroughly support "No Evidence then change it". Could be very expensive otherwise. 

Welcome to the club, Best Wishes , John

[typhoon1944]

Thanks for all the replies.  With both vehicles being serviced recently whichever one I go for I don't really want to be paying for another service.  Would anyone have a rough idea how much it would cost just to get the cambelt replaced?

[Wrinkly]

2 hours ago, typhoon1944 said:

Thanks for all the replies.  With both vehicles being serviced recently whichever one I go for I don't really want to be paying for another service.  Would anyone have a rough idea how much it would cost just to get the cambelt replaced?

Nick,

Cost is going to depend exactly what you have done and where you have it done. I.E. Jaguar Main Dealer, Independent Jaguar Specialist, Local Garage.

My advice would be to ring a number of locations and ask for a quotation.

Cheers, John

[Apriliaman2000]

In round terms I would look to adhere to a cam belt change at 10 years or 100,000 miles. Look at a cost between £350 to £500. The cost is variable depending on what else is needed or indeed being done at the same time. If there is little or no service history that must have an impact on price?

[typhoon1944]

On 6/4/2022 at 1:59 PM, Apriliaman2000 said:

In round terms I would look to adhere to a cam belt change at 10 years or 100,000 miles. Look at a cost between £350 to £500. The cost is variable depending on what else is needed or indeed being done at the same time. If there is little or no service history that must have an impact on price?

Thanks for the responses.  Unfortunately it's not quite as easy as ringing round looking for quotes as I can't use my phone during work hours and I rarely have time during my lunch break to do anything other than grab a bite to eat.  A forum post masquerading as a frantically typed email is much easier to conceal.

As I said, I believe both vehicles I am looking at have been recently serviced.  The owner of the Portfolio told me he had asked for the cambelt to be changed at the same time as the ancillary belts at the last service but the garage refused telling him to do it later.  Conversely, the owner of the Premium Luxury has been told it HAS been done but has nothing to prove it, although she has said she would get it replaced if she was guaranteed a sale.  Although it's cheaper, it's an older car, less spec with more mileage and an unresolved passenger window issue.

To compound matters both are private sellers meaning I'd have to sell my car first to release the funds to purchase.  This leaves me with a catch 22 in that I'd have to travel to view the cars then rely on their goodwill to wait while I sold mine or sell mine through WBAC or similar then have the problem of how I would travel to view them, potentially finding other undisclosed problems and having to pull out of the sale leaving me with no vehicle at all.  If I went with the first option I could pay a deposit but, if things went south, I wouldn't relish my prospects of trying to get the money back. 

I've discounted the three vehicles without SH as they really were too much of a gamble.  However the dealer came back to me a few days after posting this and said that the V6 S Portfolio did actually have 10 stamps in the service book which I am slightly confused about, as surely the book would have been the first port of call when I initially asked about it.

[Wrinkly]

2 hours ago, typhoon1944 said:

Thanks for the responses.  Unfortunately it's not quite as easy as ringing round looking for quotes as I can't use my phone during work hours and I rarely have time during my lunch break to do anything other than grab a bite to eat.  A forum post masquerading as a frantically typed email is much easier to conceal.

As I said, I believe both vehicles I am looking at have been recently serviced.  The owner of the Portfolio told me he had asked for the cambelt to be changed at the same time as the ancillary belts at the last service but the garage refused telling him to do it later.  Conversely, the owner of the Premium Luxury has been told it HAS been done but has nothing to prove it, although she has said she would get it replaced if she was guaranteed a sale.  Although it's cheaper, it's an older car, less spec with more mileage and an unresolved passenger window issue.

To compound matters both are private sellers meaning I'd have to sell my car first to release the funds to purchase.  This leaves me with a catch 22 in that I'd have to travel to view the cars then rely on their goodwill to wait while I sold mine or sell mine through WBAC or similar then have the problem of how I would travel to view them, potentially finding other undisclosed problems and having to pull out of the sale leaving me with no vehicle at all.  If I went with the first option I could pay a deposit but, if things went south, I wouldn't relish my prospects of trying to get the money back. 

I've discounted the three vehicles without SH as they really were too much of a gamble.  However the dealer came back to me a few days after posting this and said that the V6 S Portfolio did actually have 10 stamps in the service book which I am slightly confused about, as surely the book would have been the first port of call when I initially asked about it.

Nick

It would seem to me that you are "snookered" unless you buy from a dealer., who will take your current vehicle in P/X. Proof still remains the  important matter unless you choose to have the work and any associated parts etc done after purchase,

Good luck with your decisions.

Best Wishes and Regards, John

[typhoon1944]

Hello all,

Me again.  Still on the hunt for my XF but should be going down to see a 2010 Premium Luxury S with 118000 miles in Edinburgh at the week.  Confirmed timing belt change and a reasonable service history so that's one worry reduced at least, if not taken away completely.  I've also seen a private 2009 Portfolio S for around £2000 cheaper also with a SH and documented timing belt change.  However, this has had work done to it which is worrying me.  The EGR valve and speed limiter have been bypassed using a software remap and it's had the DPF removed by a Jaguar "expert" so it's now producing in excess of 320BHP.  I'm not too worried about the engine's capability to handle the increase in power but I am concerned about the DPF and where I would stand with the law and my insurance company.  Having done my research I know it's not illegal to remove these systems but it does seem to be illegal drive them on the road and knowingly sell a car without them.  I've queried it with the seller who does not seem to be too concerned and has simply advised me that the DPF on XFs are notoriously problematic so it's a good thing it's been removed and the EGR & speed limiter can be re-implemented by having the software map removed.  I can pay a significant amount of money to have the DPF replaced.  He then suggested I should do some research on the 3.0 V6 diesel engine or join a Jaguar forum to find out more about the DPF problems.

Am I right to be concerned or is it safe to buy it.  As I say he seems very unconcerned saying that it's never picked up in the MOT and it's "best to leave it as is".  There's no way to tell it's been done and "unless you put your foot down it's a normal Jag".

Many thanks as usual.

[Tomato]

Personally I would walk away from the modded one. Remap ok, but removing DPF and driving the car on a public road is illegal and attracts a £1k fine and is a MOT failure. 

Remaps are fine, but would worry what else had been done, the fact you mention other tweaks set alarm bells ringing for me. 

 

 

[Wrinkly]

11 hours ago, Tomato said:

Personally I would walk away from the modded one. Remap ok, but removing DPF and driving the car on a public road is illegal and attracts a £1k fine and is a MOT failure. 

Remaps are fine, but would worry what else had been done, the fact you mention other tweaks set alarm bells ringing for me. 

 

 

Darren

Unless you really do want a so called upgraded car that has had items done that are not really provable, I would agree with walking away from the "bastardised" car. I would also not want to take the risk of heavy fines, or even having the car impounded, due to DPF removal etc.

 

Best Wishes and Regards, John