2004 XJR probably a write off

[The Voices]

On the way home from our Jaguar Drivers Club meeting on Monday, a car came out of a side street less than 1/4 mile from home at speed and ran into the passenger side of the XJR.

 

To add insult to injury, after pushing us across the road, he proceeded to flee the scene without stopping !

 

It all happened so fast that I couldn't get a registration number or even a definite make and model for the car that hit us.

 

My wife already has back problems after spinal surgery in her teens, she is suffering from more lower back pain than usual and has had to go for an X-ray to make sure that the metal rods in her back haven't been dislodged.

 

We reported the incident to the police immediately, but as usual you just get a crime reference, I have suggested that they check for CCTV footage in the area.

 

The impact was on the back edge of the front door, runs down the rear door and onto the wheel arch, the rear wheel also took the impact and is now 'toed in' by about 40mm.

 

I will not name my (well known) insurance company for the moment, I have all three of my Jags insured with them.

 

I have been absolutely appalled by their claims process, I called the claims line and explained the damage to the call handler, he immediately said 'that will be a write off, I will pass you through to the right department and they will make you an offer'

 

When I asked about sending out an assessor to look at the damage, I got the response 'well, it's a 2004 car and it will need at least both doors so it's bound to be a total loss'

 

I wish I could say that his assessment sounded like it was based on years of experience of repairing Jaguars, but unfortunately it sounded like the only experience he had was posting on Twitter !

 

When I persisted in asking for an expert to examine the car, I was told ' we don't send out assessors now due to Covid', when I forcefully explained that there have been no significant Covid restrictions for over a year and that this was just a cop out, he had no sensible response other than 'it's our policy'

 

I requested that I could at least send images of the vehicle to assist with the decision whether to repair or write off and was given details of how to upload images and evidence.

 

The insurance companies claims portal allowed me to upload as many images as I wanted, I also sent over screen prints of every X350 XJR currently for sale on Autotrader, eBay and Pistonheads, just to make sure I made them aware of the current market prices.

 

They immediately sent me what looks like a 'generic' email, stating that they have decided that my car is a total loss and that they will be instructing a salvage company to collect the vehicle (to avoid them incurring storage costs)

 

The only saving grace is that because the incident occurred so close to home, I was able to limp the car back onto my driveway, therefore there are no storage costs.

 

I responded to their email and confirmed that the vehicle will remain in my possession and that I will retain full title until we reach an agreement to the valuation.

 

As usual, insurers try to base the value on the suggested 'retail' prices from Glasses Guide and CAP Black Book (I already have access to this information as I work for a Jaguar Land Rover main dealer) 

 

The issue is of course that there are very few 2004 '54' plate XJR's for sale at any one time, therefore the trade guide valuations are, at best, a guesstimate.

 

The current offer is £7,000 (less my excess), my car has just under 103,000 miles, full history and was in fantastic condition prior to the accident.

 

I spent months looking for the right car, it was my 50th birthday present to myself.

 

The closest equivalent that I can find for sale anywhere, privately or with a dealer, is up for £10,450 at this moment in time.

 

There are of course crazy lower mileage cars, mainly Japanese imports that are frighteningly expensive, the £29,995 8,000 mile Super V8 is just one example.

 

I am obviously ruling out these 'unicorn' cars but think that the current offer is not enough for me to replace my car on a 'like for like' basis.

 

As far as I am aware, the whole point of insurance is to put you back in the same position you were immediately before the accident, in this case, the only way to do that is to payout enough to replace the car with as close as possible to an identical vehicle ?

 

When I sent them a long but polite email stating my case and offering to discuss the matter with their loss adjuster (or whatever they are called these days), they have immediately escalated the matter to a customer complaint, which buys them up to 8 weeks to respond under FCA guidelines.

 

An interesting loophole is that, because so far neither we, nor the police can trace the other driver and vehicle, it is not classed as being hit by an uninsured driver !

 

Therefore, we cannot make any kind of claim against the central insurance fund that is set up for this purpose.

 

 

Any thoughts, sympathy, input, or details of any cars for sale that tick the right boxes are gratefully received.

[Aubrey]

Hello Jon,

I do hope your wife is alright, how awful.

I have not dealt with a claim for many years, luckily, but have heard similar stories about 

Insurance companies being too quick to write off cars without even examining them.

Some people I know have bought the car off the insurance or where able to keep it and get it repaired themselves.

I am so sorry that this has happened to you, what an awful shock for you both to be involved in an accident. 

I can imagine how upsetting this is for you after spending time finding the right car to have this happen.

I do hope you can get this sorted.

Kind Regards,

Julie.

 

[Aubrey]

If you do want to buy it back you need to tell them ASAP.

[The Voices]

Thank you Julie, my wife Sue is still experiencing some discomfort / pain but it could have been much worse.

We have been a couple since we were sixteen, so I was around when she had the spinal surgery.

I can still remember the specialist telling her that she would never be able to participate in any active sports or pastimes, as one jolt or impact in the wrong place could leave her paralysed.

 

With regards to the car, I think if I were to buy it back, the repair costs could be horrendous due to the nature of the damage.

I have spoken to the insurers today and they are now passing the valuation over to an independent company.

Will have to see how it goes !

 

 

[restorer]

If there's no structural damage then a fair offer could provide enough to buy the car back off them and pay for the repairs and paint.

You need a quote to be sure really.

 

And a fair offer!

[Aubrey]

On 3/13/2023 at 10:00 PM, The Voices said:

Thank you Julie, my wife Sue is still experiencing some discomfort / pain but it could have been much worse.

We have been a couple since we were sixteen, so I was around when she had the spinal surgery.

I can still remember the specialist telling her that she would never be able to participate in any active sports or pastimes, as one jolt or impact in the wrong place could leave her paralysed.

 

With regards to the car, I think if I were to buy it back, the repair costs could be horrendous due to the nature of the damage.

I have spoken to the insurers today and they are now passing the valuation over to an independent company.

Will have to see how it goes !

 

 

I wish a speedy recovery to Sue. 

Good luck, I hope you can get a reasonable buy back price, shop around for repair quote.

I was told by one garage to scrap an old S type I had, but another did the job for a very reasonable price.

Kind Regards,

Julie.

[The Voices]

Thank you, I have spoken to a few people regarding repairs to a proper standard.

It just isn't viable to pay to fix it, there is too much damage requiring expensive parts and a lot of labour.

One well respected repairer that is used by my fellow members of JDC Area 18 has viewed the photographs and said that he would not even take on the work.  

 

 

[JOE-DOT-COM]

Hi

you should name and shame them and at least others wont be caught out on here

I have my STR insured with Footman James, on a classic policy, with agreed value and also car retention, which means if mine is beyond economical repair, they still pay me out in full to my agreed value and the car remains mine at no cost, very competitive prices and great UK call centre.

Hope you get it sorted

cheers

Joe

[Aubrey]

13 hours ago, The Voices said:

Thank you, I have spoken to a few people regarding repairs to a proper standard.

It just isn't viable to pay to fix it, there is too much damage requiring expensive parts and a lot of labour.

One well respected repairer that is used by my fellow members of JDC Area 18 has viewed the photographs and said that he would not even take on the work.  

 

 

I am sorry to hear that. If that happened to one of my cars I would be heartbroken.

[LairdScooby]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, i wish your wife well for a speedy recovery. I suffer back trouble myself, no metal rods as yet but i can definitely relate to, if not fully understand the discomfort your wife is in.

Looking at your pics, the B post and C post are both bent, the chassis is bent (hence the misdirected NSR wheel) so would almost certainly need to be jigged and jigs don't come cheap, even on a rental basis to bodyshops. Then there's the obvious costs of the doors, any other panels (eg wheelarch) and so on plus the cost of a complete respray so that the paint matches. Wouldn't be much different for a partial respray as almost a complete side will need painting then blended in to the rest of the car, resprays are generally quoted at between £3-6k at the moment, depending on the quality.

I hope your insurers start playing the game properly and give you a decent settlement offer.

[The Voices]

Thanks everyone for your input and best wishes.

Sues back pain is currently manageable and does not seem to be getting any worse. The X-RAY's thankfully showed that none of the 'iron work' have moved.

Not had any updates from the police, as expected.

Any CCTV footage that might have identified the vehicle is likely to have been overwritten by now.

Waiting for my insurers chosen 'independent valuer' (surely a contradiction in terms ?) to contact me.

The car is on my driveway, I have the other two Jags to drive plus the company one, so no urgency on my part to agree a hasty settlement.

If I am not happy with the final offer, i will suggest that we get an 'independent valuer' appointed by me (fair's fair ?) and pay for an inspection from one of the Jaguar Drivers Club experts. 

There is a lot of cash that would need to be spent to get the car back to 'pre-accident' condition, whilst I love my car (it was my 50th birthday present), a 'money no object' rebuild is not on the cards.

[The Voices]

Some progress !

 

Revised offer of £10,600 from the independent valuers, glad I stood my ground, the original offer was £7000 !

 

I think this is more realistic and have accepted the offer, funds in my account within 24 hours.

 

Now waiting for the salvage company to contact me to arrange collection, pretty sure I will get emotional when it goes.

 

 

Still having an ongoing battle with the insurer though, regarding the provisions of the 'legal protection' policy that they sold me.

 

I quote from their email dated 7th March 2023:

 

We have recently been advised of an incident involving your vehicle. We are writing to remind you that you opted for the following Policy Upgrades when you bought your motor insurance and may be eligible to claim off one or more of them: Motor Legal Protection - covers you for £100,000 of legal expenses to recover compensation for personal injury and other uninsured losses (such as your excess) in the event of an incident that is not your fault, as long as there's a reasonable chance your claim will succeed. It also covers you for a £500 payment if you're hit by an uninsured or untraced driver. If you are looking to make a claim on your Motor Legal Protection please call -------------

 

The wording appears unambiguous to me, the driver fled the scene, we have no registration number, the police have been unable to secure a vehicle identification from CCTV footage, therefore, he (or she) is 'untraceable'

 

I have politely requested my £500, they have then attempted to pass the responsibility to a third party company that underwrites the policy and tell me that my request has been declined because there is no 'third party' to claim from.

 

I less politely pointed out that, surely, this is the textbook definition of an 'untraceable driver' and that their own email alerted me to the fact that I can claim in these circumstance, furthermore, I was sold the policy by them (my motor insurance provider) and that any dispute regarding the payout is between them and the company they have chosen to farm the policy out to, rather than an issue that involves me.

 

Every time I call the insurer, I get someone different, invariably 'working from home', who then tells me that this particular bit of motor insurance claims is not within their field of expertise. 

 

Can't help myself and then have to ask 'why are you answering the phone for the claims department then ?'

 

Now waiting for 'a manager' to call me on Monday, having had to forward them their own email to reveiw the content !

 

Only £500 but for me, it's the principle.

 

My personal theory is that this email is a generic one that goes out to anyone who makes a claim and has legal protection 'flagged' on the system, and has probably not been amended for years.

 

I am betting that in the past the policy did cover 'untraced drivers', but the current provider does not offer this benefit ?

 

Just a minor bit of mopping up really, I consider that I have already won the war.

 

 

 

Now to decide what to do next ?

 

Another X350 XJR ?

 

X150 XKR (4.2) ?

 

XFR ?

 

or.............................

 

Audi RS6 Avant 4.2 V8 Bi-turbo (a fast wagon would be handy and the only Jaguar equivalent is the XFR-S Sportbrake, very rare and way above my budget)

[LairdScooby]

Glad to hear you got a much better payout, also worth checking out this website and suggesting to your insurers they may be able to arbitrate over the £500 they are shorting you :

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/insurance

You almost certainly have a case on the "face value" of their words, i believe (but not sure) that every complaint made to the Obudsman incurs a charge on the insurer that they have to pay regardless so they may decide it's cheaper to pay you the £500 than pay the Mbudsman and then still have to pay you on top.

[The Voices]

Quick update.

Still waiting for the ombudsman to rule on the £500 untraceable driver email.

My car was advertised and sold on 'Copart' salvage auctions as a category 'N' (non structural) write off.

There were no pictures on their website showing the damage to the inner sill and rear wheel / suspension.

I will wait and see if it turns up for sale on Autotrader or eBay !

 

For anyone that's interested, I have decided to replace it with a 2010 XFR that my friend is selling.