Intermittent engine systems failure

[Guest]

Hello, 

i am looking for some opinions and would appreciate any help. 
a while ago i brought a 2009 jaguar xf 2.7 diesel luxury. When I purchased the car I took it back to garage under warranty to have a coolant leak fixed. Shortly after, the car would double beep when locking the doors and the alarm would go off (had a mind of its own) for no reason. Computer showing that drivers door triggered the alarm. My thinking at the time was that it was super sentivie as I live and park on a fairly busy road so thought nothing of it. On top of this, the Engine systems management light would pop up intermittently, sometimes staying on for 2 seconds and going off. Sometimes flashing on and off for about 10 mins and sometimes staying on solid for the whole journey but with no associated symptoms. I then lost my reverse camera, noticed that the rubber grommet which takes the wiring harness from the car to the boot had been messed with, opened it up and the wires were corroded so had a jaguar specialist replace the boot harness. Then had a problem with it going into ‘limp mode’ due to DSC fault. Had the EGR valves done at a jag specialist and whilst there asked for a full service and them to download a new ECU programme from jag and new battery in to try and sort the electrical fault as no codes popping up. Now, the car start stop button has a mind of its own, sometimes works, sometimes doesn’t, when it doesn’t if I go back to it a few hours later 9 times out of 10 it starts when I’ve done no interventions to try and fix it in the interim. Some people have said clocks need replacing, some people have said drivers door mechanism (can’t see this being the issue myself) and some say internal control unit but again, can’t see this being the culprit as everything else works as it should IE. Windows, lights, computer unit.

Has anyone else experienced this and what was the solution? Thank you for taking the time to read such a long winded post.

joe

[Irongecko]

Sorry to bump this, but I'm having almost identical symptoms with my 2009 3.0d xf s.

Engine systems fault popping up anywhere between 5 times a second to every hour. Engine start/stop sometimes not working, double beep on unlocking drivers door (computer says triggered by drivers door) and screen wash motor not sending water to the screen, but is to the headlights. 

When the engine sysyens fault is popping up a few times a second my indicators work slowly almost if they are... Lagging.

No obd2 codes stored. 

[Big John]

Hi Matt and welcome.

First port of call is the battery. If the battery is more than 5 years old I would change it. These cars, like all modern premium cars, eat up the amps at an alarming rate so unless your battery is recharged often by a long run it will suffer a drop in voltage sufficent to upset at least one of the many computer modules. If possible put it on charge and see if that solves the problem. Personally I would use a Ctek charger at least weekly. Make sure you use a charger capable of handling the AGM battery. Also if the battery is low the S/S will not be working.

Also worth checking for water in drivers footwell as the washer bottles can leak and flood the electrics causing all sorts of wierd problems so fingers crossed yours is nice and dry...

Good luck,

John

[N6 JMX]

Hi Matt, I agree with John that a weak / old main battery could be a source of issues and if over 5 years, change it. In addition, I think your car may be fitted with the small auxiliary battery, whose task is to supply the sensitive electronics whilst the car is operating in start / stop mode. If this auxiliary battery has started to fail, it can pull down the main battery and the start / stop function will not work due to there being no supply from the auxiliary battery.

In regard to the washer problem, are you sure your car is fitted with only a single washer pump? Typically the headlights are supplied by a second, higher pressure, pump albeit from the same reservoir. Failure of the pump that supplies the windscreen washers may be a factor.

N6 JMX

[Irongecko]

In regards to start/stop it's just got the usual push to start, no aux battery. It does have 2 washer pumps.

Haven't gotten battery tested yet as it refused to start for 10 minutes today at the shops so had to rush to work instead. Cold started fine at 2c within half a second. The push start light wasn't lit, and the info display on the cluster wasn't powered up. The infotainment system just was grey with small jaguar logo on. Tried the backup key slot and that did grab hold of the key but didn't do anything, either pressing brake and pushing start didn't do anything either. Not even a weak start attempt. After a long time screaming obscenities the cluster display came on and car started nearly instantly. Good strong start so I doubt it's battery. 

I've noticed dome light has randomly been on or off when I start car, and beeps on lock/unlock have been random too. First time it's totally refused to start today. 

From a little googling I notice a lot of these symptoms could be a bad bcm between that and the washer not working I'm wondering if the bcm is located in the driver's footwell where a washer fault may cause liquid ingress?  There's been no wetness in the footwell but I have noticed a bit of condensation when I've started the engine, but have just put that down to the cold. 

[N6 JMX]

This could still be a poor battery and / or a bad set of earth connections. The ability to start the car is no longer the best test that your battery is fine. The electronics on your car are extremely sensitive to low voltage, which generally will not bother the starter motor until much later.

Low voltage causes the electronic control modules to become unable to be seen by the CANBUS.

N6 JMX

[Irongecko]

I've ordered a battery/alternator/ripple tester that will be here tomorrow, my multimeter seems to have grown legs sadly. Im still thinking the washer has either leaked into wiring or a corroded connector is intermittently pulling the voltage down.

[Irongecko]

Battery tester arrived. Battery seems OK? 

 

Also did a scan with my questionable SDD clone. went nuts when I scanned it with half the systems faulting on the dash so half of the errors are probably false. Starter relay and steering module are both okay once I get the cluster lit up it starts fine.

 

[Big John]

Hi Matt

Hard to see the details on the photos but the battery could well be the cause, although it looks like you now have several of the computer modules sulking and not talking to each other. This can happen if the battery voltage gets low and corrupts the software. My sportbrake had problems in lockdown when I left it for a month, battery went flat, jump started OK, but rear doors and windows were now permenantly locked 😞

I think the car "stores" 3 copies of the entire software in various modules and it is possible (if you know what you are doing and have the correct diagnostics) to repair the corrupted software with a "clean" copy.

Apparently there is a place in Milton Keynes called E & E who  are really good at clearing the codes and sorting the module issues. Obviously a long way from you, but might be worth a call. Otherwise I suggest a specialist with the Autologic diagnostics as they seem to get the best results. From previous threads on here if you go to Jaguar they just advise changing each "faulty" module with a VERY large invoice at the end.

Good luck

John

[N6 JMX]

Hi Matt, not familiar with your particular battery tester readings, but it does not look to me as though it is telling you the battery is good. Certainly during the cranking test the voltages recorded are extremely low.

Both John and I have tried to point you at the car's battery, but so far I haven't seen a response that indicates the age of the battery - do you know how old it is?

Your SDD screen shot is effectively saying no communication to / from the various modules and that to me indicates that the battery has gotten to such a low ebb, the modules have disconnected. As John highlights, the next steps are to ensure the battery (and the earth connections) are good and if the non-communication still persists, the car needs a complete reboot, which requires a specialist, with the correct tools and knowledge.

Not aware of any specialists within your immediate area, so more searching will be required.

N6 JMX

[Irongecko]

Have only had the car less than a year so all I can say is that the battery is "older than that" 

 

Got the battery tested at the local garage, they said it was absolutely fine, but I'll put it on charge anyway. They cleared codes and we will see what comes back. 

 

Is it safe to disconnect the battery as I live in a flat so can't charge it in car. 

[N6 JMX]

Hi Matt, yes you can disconnect the battery to charge it off the car, just first refer to your Handbook to see if you need any reset codes, e.g. radio, before you pull the terminals off. You may also require to reset any window operation for one-touch, but I am not overly familiar with the intricacies of the XF.

The easiest way to find out the age of your battery is to locate the battery, as you are about to do. Many batteries have a date on top of them which shows when they were manufactured. This date will help you figure out how old your car battery is.

However, if the battery is undated, you can usually, but not always, find a code on the battery or battery cover. The first two characters on this code will tell you when the battery was manufactured. The first character is a number, ranging from 0 to 9. This tells the last digit for the year of manufacture, for example, 9 would be 2019. The second character will tell you the month of manufacture, from A - L (January to December). For example, K would be November, so 9K or K9 would be November 2019. The first two characters are interchangeable depending on who makes the battery.

N6 JMX

[Irongecko]

All my local jag specialists are busy til mid April, so took it to Auto repairs MOT in Maryport who took the time to read the codes with an autel scanner and wouldn't take money for it despite my best efforts. Codes read after clearing.

P0635-11 Intermittent - Power steering

P0635-13 History -Power steering

B100B-67 History - Column lock ground authorization

B112B-87 History - Steering wheel module

B1B101-67 Temporary - key transponder - We think this was from me walking off with the key in my pocket while it was being scanned

B1B101-87 Temporary - key transponder

B1B33-64 History  Target identification transfer, signal plausibility failure

U0121-00 History Lost comms with ABS

 

My focus is now on B1B33-64, which the autel scanner said can be caused by immobiliser problems etc but also... *drum roll* By pressing the engine start button for a few seconds after the drivers door is opened, and every time I open my car the infotainment says alarm triggered by: drivers door

Parked the car up at home because of course it worked totally fine at the garage. Stopped and started it a few times no problem... but as soon as I opened the drivers door it refused to start again even after I closed it.  Could all this be caused by a dodgy drivers door sensor?

Oh and as for the battery I am missing one socket from my set, the exact one to unscrew the holddown to get the thing out.