ECU Tuning

msmicksmith · February 7, 2014

As promised in another thread, I'm reporting my findings from my recent ECU upgrade.

I have a 2005 X-Type 2.2 Diesel Sport, which pulled really well from low down revs, but quickly faded off after the initial rush.

The new ECU program has given a massive kick in the !Removed! from just above tickover, and the power delivery continues right through the rev range up toward the redline. It now drives much more like a petrol turbo than a diesel! With an initial rush of power which now doesn't really back off until gearchange.

Although 'off-the-line' acceleration is quicker, it's not where the biggest gain is. The car now charges uphill and the acceleration in 4th, 5th and 6th is akin to an aeroplane take-off!

I've 'chipped' cars before but the last was in the days of removing the actual chip from the ecu and replacing them with upgraded ones.

Celtic Tuning - www.celtictuning.co.uk - turned up at my house exactly on time and performed the upgrade with a laptop.

The difference is astonishing!

I decided on CT as their website goes into a lot of detail about the methods they use to devise their ecu programs using their own rolling road tests, complete with exhaust gas temperature monitoring etc to ensure the programs stay within the engines 'safe' limits.

I'm not new to mechanics and to engine tuning. I've done my share of engine strips and modifications so I know a thing or two about it. The website didn't give me any indication that they were making anything up, so I bit the bullet and booked.

If you're looking for a professional service, easy booking and a hassle free performance upgrade, which won't harm your engine and doesn't adversely affect fuel economy, book it with Celtic!

It cost £295, but it was worth every penny!

Steve MaC · February 10, 2014

Hi Mick,

I've been waiting for a post on ECU remapping, I have filled in a form for a quote with CT, however I'm in Essex so may be too far for them, there are other companies local to me but I don't know anyone with an X Type 2.2 who has used them, so thanks for your post, i'll post when I've heard from them, I may

Regards

Steve

msmicksmith · February 13, 2014

Hi Steve,

Sorry for not responding sooner, I hadn't checked the forum for a few days.

CT operate nationwide. Although they are based in Cornwall, they have technicians who 'live' on the road. Tommy, who performed my upgrade, spends his week away from home travelling the country, so don't worry about not being local. I live near Peterborough! When Tommy left my place at 1030am he was setting off for Norwich for his next job

It's worth sending in an email to CT. I did that and Kevin responded within a few hours, and replied to every email I sent. Absolutely superb customer relations. Also, if you aren't happy with the install, you have 14 days to have it removed by them and your money refunded, but I highly doubt you will.........

As I said in my original post, it's the best £295 I've spent. There may be cheaper alternatives out there but I expect they will be bog-standard upgrade programs, whereas CT modify your original ecu program rather than delete and replace it. They also develop their own software upgrades rahter than copy someone elses work. There are 'tuning boxes' out there that are about £70 on eBay etc, but I would avoid these if you value your engine. They do nothing but increase fuel pressure. Nothing else. And that fuel increase isn;t matched with an increase in turbo pressure so all you get is black smoke, excess carbon/soot, blocked egr valve, and as you have a 2008 model I expect it will have a DPF on it which will also become blocked.

Let me know if you go for a CT upgrade and what you think afterwards.

Mick

msmicksmith · February 13, 2014

In addition to my last post, I have been running my Jag with 'Millers EcoPower' fuel additive and Castrol fully synthetic, Low-Ash, 2-stroke Oil.

I add both to the fuel tank with each fill-up. Millers uses 50ml per tank, and I put about the same in of the 2-stroke Oil. The difference is a massively quieter and smoother engine and it is noticeable immediately. Cold starts no longer sound like a Massey-Ferguson, and at a 50-60mph cruise I can no longer hear the engine.

Millers raises the combustibility of the diesel so you get a cleaner, more complete burn which results in less soot and nothing to block EGR valves, and the Oil adds lubrication to the fuel system and the top end of the engine. You need to make sure you use top-quality fully synthetic 2-stroke oil. It must be the low-ash variety. It leaves no particles in the exhaust system so doesn't clog DPF's or EGR's.

Before using this combination, I would get the usual diesel smoke under low-rev hard acceleration which could be clearly seen at night in the car headlights behind. Now it emits nothing! No smoke at all regardless of what I do. And if you do the maths, it equates to an additional cost of around £1.40 per tankful. Well worth it in my opinion.

Hope this helps someone

Steve MaC · February 13, 2014

Hi Mick,

My Jag doesn't have the DPF, it seems a bit of a 'Hybrid' car,it has standard headlamps but it has black piping on the cream leather seats and 'Jag voice control'.

I have been using 'Redex' diesel injector cleaner, I don't know if it makes any difference but figured it couldn't do any harm, it costs £4 in Tesco's, not that I'm looking for cheap it's just that I see it in my local shop at £6.50.

I looked up the miller one and it looks better, it does actually treat 500 litres of fuel.

I take it it's the 'Diesel Power Eco Max',

Thanks for the tip of using the 2 stroke Oil, anything that helps the engine sound quieter when starting off has got to be a plus.

Sorry to be a pain but any chance you could send me a link to the correct 2 stroke Oil?, I put it in a search and there are so many different ones, these are the the oils I found

http://www.rgracing-oils.co.uk/Castrol%20Oils%202%20stroke%20oils.htm

I have indeed had a reply from CT assuring me distance is not a problem,

Regards

Steve

msmicksmith · February 13, 2014

Hi Steve,

Jaguar did produce cars with a lot of optional extras. Sounds like yours is like mine. Mine is the Sport but has cruise control, bluetooth, xenon lights and a few other bits that weren't standard on that model.

Good result from CT. You should book with them. You won't regret it.

As for Millers, it is the diesel eco max that I use. I've used redex before and it does the job of gradually cleaning but it isn't a patch on the Miller stuff. The difference is noticeable within a couple of miles. As soon as it's mixed up in the tank and delivered to the pump, you can hear and feel the difference. Throttle response is improved almost immediately and the engine quietens noticeably.

Try this link for the Oil. This is the stuff I use -http://shop.1stmx.co.uk/castrol-2-stroke-motocross-oil-power-1-racing-2t-13268-p.asp

Cheers

Mick

msmicksmith · February 13, 2014

It's not the Oil that makes the engine quieter. The Oil just adds more lubrication to the fuel delivery system and the valves and seats. Modern diesel is low sulphur and has various additives depending on which you buy. Supermarket diesel lacks the quantity of additives that you would get from say BP and as a result burns differently. The Oil just gives a bit extra lubrication which isn't a bad thing obviously. Most diesel these days doesn't have the lubricating properties that it used to have 10 years ago thanks to EU emissions regulations. By using the 2 stroke oil, it is designed to be burned in the combustion chamber and using the fully synthetic, low ash stuff you get fewer, if any, deposits in the exhaust system, EGR valve, catalytic converter etc.

The Millers EcoMax is what does the quietening and gives the extra engine response by raising the cetane level of the fuel. With a higher cetane level the fuel ignites more readily and burns faster, hotter and more completely. Because of this, it makes the engine run smoother, quieter and more responsively. Just the same as unleaded having a 92, 95 and a 97 Octane rating. The higher the Octane, the more combustible the fuel.

Steve MaC · February 13, 2014

Thanks Mick,

Just shows my knowledge of cars is limited to the waxing and driving bit, I've ordered the 2 stroke Oil from the link you sent me, and I believe 'Halfords' sell the miller additive.

Thanks again for the advice Mick, it's not wasted on me..

Regards

Steve

Old Peter · February 14, 2014

Very interesting posts, Mick. I have never used Oil additives and at the moment I have been using diesel from Sainsbury's as the price is lower. Jaguar do not recommend the use of Oil additives

My S Type has only 52k on the clock and the engine was replaced by Jaguar at 21k so for a diesel it is still quite young. I use Castrol Magnatec. Should I change fuel from the Supermarket brands to the local Shell Garage?

Any recommendations/thoughts

msmicksmith · February 14, 2014

Glad ot helps someone Steve.

I've worked on cars and engines from the age of 4. My dad started me by showing me how to strip and rebuild a Mercedes Benz carburettor. Although I'm not a qualified mechanic, I never use garages for anything, and of the 46 cars I've owned (I'm 40!) None of them have seen inside a garage except at MoT time.

I've used just about every additive there is and most of them are useless. Millers tops redex in my book. Another one I've found to be excellent is Ametech Engine Restore. Not cheap, and you need to add it at every old change, but does exactly what is says on the tin!

msmicksmith · February 14, 2014

Peter, I use supermarket diesel as well as branded. If the price is right it goes in the tank. There's a lot of controversy surrounding it on the Internet but I've never had any problems with it. The reason I add the Millers and the 2 stroke is because diesel has been stripped of a lot of its engine saving ingredients in recent years and isn't the great, combustlible, lubricating stuff it used to be. A bit like leaded petrol vs 92RON. These additives boost both the combustibity of the fuel, and clean dirt deposits from injector heads, valve surfaces and gas channels in inlet and exhaust, which aids smoother running, response, economy and rattling (which is just noisy detonation and can be heard in the top of the engine and exhaust manifold) and the 2 stroke helps with lubricating the vital parts. The 2 stroke is designed to burn in an engine as it is mixed in a 2 stroke system to aid lubrication. The top quality stuff simply burns up completely into smaller particles than normal soot and is expelled fully through the exhaust.

No manufacturer recommends the use of additives purely because they can't control what you are putting in and they have warranty claims to consider. I don't use engine Oil additives as a rule. I simply use a good engine flush solution and religiously use only Mobil oils. My Jag currently has Mobil 3000 in it and a genuine filter, not a rubbish pattern part which actually costs more!

Old Peter · February 14, 2014

Hi Mick,

I have just come back from the local Shell station and fill up with their standard diesel. At £1.34.9 it was the same as Tesco. I did notice a "superior" diesel at 8p dearer. I am going to Northampton on Monday and I will see if I notice any difference.

The mechanic who has serviced and maintained my cars for the last 12 years will only use the correct filters and oils.

30 years of fully expensed company cars lead me away from doing my own maintenance, and having an expert around like yourself is great for the Club.

Regards,

Peter

msmicksmith · February 14, 2014

Peter, I won't claim to be an expert as I'm not. I turned 40 last weekend, so you could say that with 36 years of doing it myself, I'm very experienced, but not an expert. My dad and I used to strip engines, gearboxes, cylinder heads etc etc when I was in single figures, but he taught me the value of doing the job right and using the correct tools and parts.

I am meticulous with everything I do, and I get increasingly frustrated when I find people I know who have taken their cars for repairs at a garage only to find they've used cheap alternative parts and not done a thorough job. For example, how difficult, costly or time consuming is it to pop a smear of copper grease on brake pad locating lugs, or onto wheel stud threads when refitting wheels? Or to use a torque wrench to tighten wheel nuts instead of an air gun?

It's the simple things and the attention to detail that make a repair correct and worth the money you pay. If you've found a garage you trust that does things properly then stick with them. They are a dying breed. Many garages now buy Oil in bulk drums as it is cheaper for them. Modern cars run on much thinner oils these days due to tighter fitting components where thicker Oil just cannot penetrate, and the local 'backstreet' garage offering £60 services will undoubtedly use their bulk bought 10W/40 in your Jag engine which requires 5W/30, simply because they either don't know or don't care.

Feel free to message me if you need any help. If I don't have the answers I know several people in the professional trade who can help find out.

msmicksmith · February 14, 2014

Oh, I forgot Peter, the 8p a litre more expensive diesel will probably make no noticeable difference to your car. It might run a little smoother or little more responsively, and you might get a marginal increase in mpg, but you won't really notice it. How these fuels differ is in the additives they have in them. All fuel refineries do it a little differently from each other. The bog-standard supermarket diesel will be like a version of Tesco Value or Sainsbury's Basics. Same fuel, none of the frills.

The more expensive supermarket stuff will have a few more things added to it to aid cleaner running, anti-foaming etc.

The branded stuff, such as BP or ESSO, is where the most 'extras' are found. These will have more additives in them to aid lubrication of the fuel pump and to prevent noisy detonation etc. You get what you pay for really.

The Millers EcoPower that I mentioned is around £11 a bottle and treats 10 tankfuls so it works out to be less expensive than using the top branded diesel and probably does a much better job. I add the 2 stroke Oil just to give a little reassurance that my pump, injectors and other essential components are being lubricated properly regardless of what fuel I use.

If I were to run my Jag from new on branded fuel and add a little of my own additives, I'd expect virtually nothing to go wrong with my fuel supply system, egr valve etc for around 200k miles and I've known cars with in excess of 300k with no faults! If I ran it on supermarket diesel from new, I'd expect to be replacing things such as the EGR valve from around 80k mile. Injectors will clog up give poor atomisation from around 50k and I expect would fail completely after around 100-130k. A lot of what you hear about failing injectors, pumps, egr valves etc on diesel cars is partially as a result of running on poor quality fuel.

Old Peter · February 14, 2014

Thanks, Mick,

Two very reassuring posts. My mechanic never buys Oil in bulk. In fact when he last changed my Oil he got the Castrol Magnatec as recommended and brought me three litres back that were surplus to the required amount.

Of course, living 6 miles from Castle Vale, genuine parts for Jaguar are quite easy to buy in the shops and the "cheap" alternatives are very rare. There is some pride in Brummies about making cars.

If I get a big mileage with this car I will be very pleased as I am 80 next birthday.

Thanks very much

Peter.

msmicksmith · February 14, 2014

Anytime Peter

Steve tgr · March 16, 2014

Hi

does anybody use additives of any sort with unleaded petrol, if so what do you recommend.

cheers steve

msmicksmith · March 16, 2014

Petrol is much cleaner burning than diesel and doesn't produce the carbon deposits that diesels do. If your petrol engine is running well and not producing emission problems then I'd not bother adding anything. You could perhaps use a premium fuel instead of the supermarket stuff as the same applies with the diesels here too with regard to the additives the suppliers put in their fuels. Premium unleaded has more stuff in it to promote a cleaner burn and to resist carbon deposits being built up on valves etc. Even use the 97RON fuel instead of 92RON. It'll burn cleaner and will give you a slight improvement in throttle response.

However, if you have running problems, the best and only way to cure it is to remove the offending compenents and either clean or replace them.

Personally, I wouldn't waste your money on the additives for petrol. I'd opt to use the better quality, higher octane unleaded instead. I had a Vectra V6 not long ago which was slightly tuned but there was a noticeable difference when using 97RON instead of the 92RON. It wasn't a huge difference but it was still there.

Old Peter · March 17, 2014

Valuable post, Mick. I have been running on supermarket diesel [due to 10p a litre off] .

Last month I used my local Shell garage which was only a penny a litre dearer than Tesco, and nearer. The car seems to run a touch smoother. I might also use the dearer higher performance diesel on occasion.

Regards,

Peter

msmicksmith · March 17, 2014

I used some Shell Optimax (I think thats what it's called) a couple of months ago and I did notice a little improvement in the cars response. It felt a little smoother too. The best I've noticed is from using the Millers additive I mentioned but the more expensive fuels at the pump do seem to make a small but noticeable difference, either diesel or petrol. The vast majority of additives do little but empty your wallet though

msmicksmith · March 17, 2014

I've never used it before but given the effect the diesel equivalent had on my X-Type, this might be worth a try.

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive/tds-automotive.asp?prodsegmentID=135&sector=Car

SteveLee · April 18, 2014

Very useful thread..... Sold it on me. Want to remap to mainly improve MPG, with a little improved performance too.

Steve Lee. New X type owner, and new member.

msmicksmith · April 19, 2014

Celtic Tuning offer a remap for improved performance and a separate one for economy. I'm sure both are worthwhile, but economy can be gained by backing off with the right foot. Performance can only be gained by the full upgrade. Obviously, depends on what you want from your car but if you have the full performance remap you can get both. I can get my 2.2 to return an average of around 43-46 mph in daily use and on an 'eco-drive' I can get between 52-56mpg. Even driven in earnest it'll give around 38-42mpg depending on how hard I push it.

The bonus is that if I want to I can scuttle off and it takes something quite extreme to keep up. Just how a Jaguar Sport should be!

The standard 2.2 is reasonably quick, but the full remap makes it thoroughly entertaining, and you can still get economy if you want it

SteveLee · April 19, 2014

Thanks Mick. Already started with the additives.... And seeing a difference straight away.

Celtic have been back to me today, and I'll be booking them soon.

msmicksmith · April 19, 2014

The Millers stuff is superb. I always have a bottle in the garage and I use it in my wifes Saab and my dads Laguna. Both show noticeable improvements with it.

Celtic, in my opinion, are superb. The technician turned up bang on time and the job was complete in an hour. What more can you ask?

Look forward to reading about your experience